Curches Celebrate Darwin's Birthday

[Tribesman]

Those mentioned in the article are Apostate Churches that have no connection to God or anything that is good.
Just out of curiosity Navaros , what exactly is the true Christian church that you follow ?
Since you say that all the others have rejected their faith then which is the one that still has the faith ?

[Viking]

'It`s to demonstrate, by Christian leaders and members of the clergy, that you don`t have to make that choice. You can have both,' said Michael Zimmerman, dean of the College of Letters and Sciences at the University of Wisconsin-Oshkosh, who organized the 'Evolution Sunday' event.

Good, good. No religion will ever work without accepting science and knowledge.

[Redleg]

I wasn't trying to make that argument. I don't claim to know what caused life, but that it has since then evolved is clear to me at least.

That is simply put, what I believe the gest of Darwin's Theory of evolution.

[Proletariat]

I think Proletariat was trying to say that it's silly to say life couldn't have been the result of evolution, while HIV viruses are so damn adaptive there's nothing we can do about it.

Close, but I should've been a little more clear. I was more talking about the thought that simply because life is complex, it must've been designed by a higher intelligence. I wasn't saying that I thought evolution and the Bible were incompatible because of this (or for any reason.)

The concept of Faith usually seems to get ignored during these debates. God prolly wouldn't have placed such an emphasis on it if he expected Christians to try and find scientific evidence that he wasn't lying in the word he gave to us.

I personally don't believe in it because I have no faith in it. The whole thing sounds very unlikely to me for many reasons, but those reasons are neither the existence of complicated viruses or the evolution theory.

(Thanks for clearing up the ape thing, BDC.)

[Reverend Joe]

No man who has committed the one unforgivable sin: committed blasphemy against the Holy Spirit by claiming the Word of God is a lie (as Darwin has done) can ever claim to be anything other than an enemy of God and a friend of "the world" (there is no way to be both).

I believe you are making a mistake here... the "one unforgivable sin" is the failure to sleep with a woman (or a man, if you are a woman) when (s)he wishes you to.

From the holiest of holy books:
"'...he who can sleep with a woman and does not, commits a great sin. ...if a woman calls you to share her bed and you don't go, your soul will be destroyed! That woman will sigh before God on judgement day, and that woman's sigh, whoever you may be and whatever your fine deeds, will cast you into hell!'"

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

[Subtle thread hijack]

This one's for the Christians out there who believe in Original Sin. Man has Original Sin. In the Bible, it comes from Genesis, when Adam & Eve sin in the garden. Now, if Genesis can't be taken literally, when does Original Sin come into play? The first homo sapien? Did our first acsestors just develop Original Sin one day?

This is rather important. If there is no Original Sin, what did Jesus have to save us from?

Anyone have a good explanation how Original Sin jives with evolution?

Hope I have my theology all right...

[Xiahou]

Well, I cant provide the official line (dont know it), but Id think the argument would be that Adam's original sin would also be symbolic for the corruption of human nature rather than a particular act...

[Soulforged]

Because the creationism debate has been a recurrent theme here, these churches are trying to reconcile Darwinism and creationism, and he would like people's opinions on it?

I cannot say that this makes me happy, this only goes to show that when you attack religion you only make it stronger, in one way or the other. Probably if the "designers" were the majority, there will be more atheist. Anyway, at least it shows reason.

[Lemur]

[Overt thread hijack]

Man has Original Sin. In the Bible, it comes from Genesis, when Adam & Eve sin in the garden. Now, if Genesis can't be taken literally, when does Original Sin come into play? The first homo sapien? Did our first acsestors just develop Original Sin one day?

The best summation of Original Sin I ever heard went something like this: Remember Woody Allen's line about "Sex is only dirty if you do it right?" That's an aspect of it. The yearning for debasement, the appeal of ugliness and pain, that's a part of it too. There's a part of human nature that abhors perfection and goodness. That's why we are capable of spurning God's love.

Anyway, that's one way of looking at it. Another way would be to look at what exactly Adam and Eve did wrong. They grabbed onto knowledge. They raised themselves up from the animal state to a slightly different place. So by that reading, the evolution of a complex brain is our original sin. We've grabbed hold of comprehension and reason, but without the grace and goodness that ought to go with it.

I'm sure one can read it in any number of ways. If you're a real stick in the mud, you could even read it literally. Although I've always been puzzled by people who do that. God is very specific abotu how we're supposed to stone to death people who collect wood on the Sabbath. But you never hear the televangelists advising us to do so. Why not? I would like to stone a person to death for collecting sticks on the wrong day. Sounds like wholesome fun.

[GoreBag]

From the holiest of holy books:
"'...he who can sleep with a woman and does not, commits a great sin. ...if a woman calls you to share her bed and you don't go, your soul will be destroyed! That woman will sigh before God on judgement day, and that woman's sigh, whoever you may be and whatever your fine deeds, will cast you into hell!'"

That's in the Book of Flava Flav?

[ajaxfetish]

[Subtle thread hijack]

This one's for the Christians out there who believe in Original Sin. Man has Original Sin. In the Bible, it comes from Genesis, when Adam & Eve sin in the garden. Now, if Genesis can't be taken literally, when does Original Sin come into play? The first homo sapien? Did our first acsestors just develop Original Sin one day?

This is rather important. If there is no Original Sin, what did Jesus have to save us from?

Anyone have a good explanation how Original Sin jives with evolution?

Hope I have my theology all right...

My church doesn't buy into the original sin doctrine, but as for the need for the salvation of Jesus, the commandments he sets are seriously rigorous (don't lust, be angry, etc.) and there are plenty of scriptural references for all having 'sinned and come short of the glory of God,' so for us the sin and the need is individual.

I'm also very glad to hear about the reasonable response to evolution. Many within my church are very anti-evolution and don't even realize we have no official stance toward the theory. Happy birthday, Chuck!

Ajax

[Bartix]

I believe you are making a mistake here... the "one unforgivable sin" is the failure to sleep with a woman (or a man, if you are a woman) when (s)he wishes you to.

From the holiest of holy books:
"'...he who can sleep with a woman and does not, commits a great sin. ...if a woman calls you to share her bed and you don't go, your soul will be destroyed! That woman will sigh before God on judgement day, and that woman's sigh, whoever you may be and whatever your fine deeds, will cast you into hell!'"

I believe you are making a mistake here...

Wherefore I say unto you, all manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men, but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men

I am not knowing original meaning, so other rule may or may not be applied to women.

[Bartix]

Maybe it's just me, but I find it ironically funny when so-called 'enlightened' folks try to look down on religious people for not believing that humans evolved from apes. Anyone who's looked at the issue at all realizes no one thinks that's true.

I thought that was straw man image of evolution created by creationists.

[Navaros]

Those mentioned in the article are Apostate Churches that have no connection to God or anything that is good.
Just out of curiosity Navaros , what exactly is the true Christian church that you follow ?
Since you say that all the others have rejected their faith then which is the one that still has the faith ?

I do not associate myself with any denomination, although there are many denominations who would agree with everything I've said in this thread. In fact, any & every Bible-believing Church would agree with everything I've said in this thread. If a Church is not a Bible-believing Church, then it is nothing other than a worthless den of lies & hypocrisy and a very grievous affront to God.

Things that the Bible makes abundantly clear, such as that the Earth was made in 7 days and Adam and Eve were the first humans made directly and instantly by God's hand are indisputable for anyone calling himself a believer in the Bible. God's Word is explicit on all of these things. Anyone who would agree with warped delusions formed in the infantile minds of men (ie: apes magically turning into men over time) rather than agreeing with what the Word of God explicitly states is certainly not a legitimate follower of God or Jesus Christ.

[Watchman]

Which particular Bible, specifically ? I understand it comes in quite a few versions.

[Navaros]

Which particular Bible, specifically ? I understand it comes in quite a few versions.

100% of Bible versions are explicitly clear about everything I've said in this thread.

[Reverend Joe]

I believe you are making a mistake here...

I am not knowing original meaning, so other rule may or may not be applied to women.

Who said anything about the Bible being the holiest of holy books?

[Ser Clegane]

That reminds me of the good old "Chick Tracts"...

Apes, Lies and Ms. Henn

Big Daddy?

[Redleg]

100% of Bible versions are explicitly clear about everything I've said in this thread.

Incorrect. A percentage of human interpation states what you have stated. Normally it is the interpation of fundmentalistic idealogues who use the Old Testiment to justify violence against others, while ignoring the teachings of Christ in the New Testiment.


I have seen your type of message before Navaros it usually comes from those who bomb abortion clinics, shoot doctors, burn negro churches and beat homosexuals to death.

[rory_20_uk]

Navros, as you might have seen in the game RTW, the Bible is as much a political work as a religious one. Masses of content was removed by the Roman Emperor against the wishes of many of the Bishops.

So, not only the first centralised Bible highly edited, it has then got several current editions all of which again are slightly different, even with some containing passages others don't.

But having gazed at some of the other... things you're written it seems that logic just isn't your thing, is it?

[Tribesman]

In fact, any & every Bible-believing Church would agree with everything I've said in this thread.
Really , could you name one ?
It does appear as if you are a one man "christian" version of the Taliban .

[Byzantine Mercenary]

I do not associate myself with any denomination, although there are many denominations who would agree with everything I've said in this thread. In fact, any & every Bible-believing Church would agree with everything I've said in this thread. If a Church is not a Bible-believing Church, then it is nothing other than a worthless den of lies & hypocrisy and a very grievous affront to God.

Things that the Bible makes abundantly clear, such as that the Earth was made in 7 days and Adam and Eve were the first humans made directly and instantly by God's hand are indisputable for anyone calling himself a believer in the Bible. God's Word is explicit on all of these things. Anyone who would agree with warped delusions formed in the infantile minds of men (ie: apes magically turning into men over time) rather than agreeing with what the Word of God explicitly states is certainly not a legitimate follower of God or Jesus Christ.

Again i have to repeat, what gives you the right to judge other christians, YOU HAVE A LOG IN YOUR EYE

Not everything written in the bible should be taked literally, what did jesus say when his own disiples took his own statements literally and brought him a sword?

As an example you say that the bible says that the world was made in 7 days, well there is no amount of time alloted to the term day, there is when you speak of an Earth day or a Martian day but il wager that one of gods days is different!

I believe you are making a mistake here... the "one unforgivable sin" is the failure to sleep with a woman (or a man, if you are a woman) when (s)he wishes you to.

From the holiest of holy books:
"'...he who can sleep with a woman and does not, commits a great sin. ...if a woman calls you to share her bed and you don't go, your soul will be destroyed! That woman will sigh before God on judgement day, and that woman's sigh, whoever you may be and whatever your fine deeds, will cast you into hell!'"

Is this quote from the old testament? the new testament makes the rules on sex outside marriage clear, perhaps sleep realy means sleep?

[Lemur]

Is Navarros going to stone us to death for collecting wood on the Sabbath?

[Big_John]

That reminds me of the good old "Chick Tracts"...

Apes, Lies and Ms. Henn

Big Daddy?

Is Navarros going to stone us to death for collecting wood on the Sabbath?

what a sad little world!

[Tribesman]

Is Navarros going to stone us to death for collecting wood on the Sabbath?
Thats a point , which day is the Sabbath , is it Friday , Saturday or Sunday ?
You would think the bible would make something so important absolutely clear , I can never understand how the religeons derived from the same book can have different days for the Sabbath .
Hey maybe its tuesday .

[Crazed Rabbit]

I do not associate myself with any denomination, although there are many denominations who would agree with everything I've said in this thread. In fact, any & every Bible-believing Church would agree with everything I've said in this thread. If a Church is not a Bible-believing Church, then it is nothing other than a worthless den of lies & hypocrisy and a very grievous affront to God.

Things that the Bible makes abundantly clear, such as that the Earth was made in 7 days and Adam and Eve were the first humans made directly and instantly by God's hand are indisputable for anyone calling himself a believer in the Bible. God's Word is explicit on all of these things. Anyone who would agree with warped delusions formed in the infantile minds of men (ie: apes magically turning into men over time) rather than agreeing with what the Word of God explicitly states is certainly not a legitimate follower of God or Jesus Christ.

I guess I must belong to one of those crazy little 'den of lies' sects; Catholicism. It only has more than a billion followers worldwide and the one institution dating from the time of St. Peter. But I guess conservative Catholics are really just hippies in disguise.

Crazed Rabbit

P.S. The funny thing is you don't even attach yourself to a denomination.

[Goofball]

Oh, I doubt that.
No serious scientist would suggest man evolved from apes.

Sorry, got caught in the semantic trap.



No, humans did not evolve from modern apes. But we did evolve (as did modern apes) from a creature that was so apelike in its appearance if any layman were to see one today he would refer to it as an ape.

[Xiahou]

Sorry, got caught in the semantic trap.

Hey, don't beat yourself up too bad- it couldve happened to anyone.

[Goofball]

Hey, don't beat yourself up too bad- it couldve happened to anyone.

*wishes there was a better way to send sound effects to other Org members*

pfffffffffttttt!

[Proletariat]

I think you might've been looking for 'thphbthbthpthtbthbbthtp'.