Saddam repays the Left for their support for him...

[Lemur]

Perhaps we need a new corollary to Godwin's Law to cover this sort of thread?

[solypsist]

looks like rush and the rest of the conservatives need to make jokes to help cover up the fact that america is losing the war in iraq and american dead are piling up. keep laughing, guys.

[Tribesman]

You defeatist Soly , they are winning .
Car bombings have fallen from over 800 down to 400
Roadside bombing have fallen from 10,000 to 5,000 .

ummmmm... actually I think I may have got those numbers the wrong way round

[Divinus Arma]

Just for you who think you know what is really going on in Iraq, I thought I would share a wee bit of info.

A fellow Marine who just came back from Iraq spoke with me about his experience. First of all, he spent most of his time in either Al Taqadum or Fallujah for the last nine months or so. Second of all, to give you background on this guy, he is a total independant and does not relate to any party. I know him as a total "straight shooter" who is deadpan honest. He has no reason to elaborate one way or the other on anything. He was just bored. It is slowing down big time over there all across the country. Yes, there are still a few trouble spots such as parts of Baghdad sometimes and al Ramadi but generally speaking, there just is no action.

This seems to be the consenus. Things are slowing down, winding down, wrapping up, whatever you want to call it.


Is that defeat?

[Divinus Arma]

looks like rush and the rest of the conservatives need to make jokes to help cover up the fact that america is losing the war in iraq and american dead are piling up. keep laughing, guys.

This is totally absurd. I really feel sorry for you, actually.

America is losing the campaign in Iraq?

Elections.

A constitution.

Iraqi Security forces taking over areas of responsibility.

The non-reported peaceful transfer of power when Sunnis gained a small number of seats in the Iraqi congress.

Saddam Hussein in jail and on trial.

Sunni insurgents actively fighting against "Al Qaida in Iraq".

Sunni Insurgents discussing the importance of political participation rather than violence.


America is losing the campaign in Iraq?

You are looking at the wrong information my friends.

[Tachikaze]

This is totally absurd. I really feel sorry for you, actually.

America is losing the campaign in Iraq?

Elections.

A constitution.

Iraqi Security forces taking over areas of responsibility.

The non-reported peaceful transfer of power when Sunnis gained a small number of seats in the Iraqi congress.

Saddam Hussein in jail and on trial.

Sunni insurgents actively fighting against "Al Qaida in Iraq".

Sunni Insurgents discussing the importance of political participation rather than violence.


America is losing the campaign in Iraq?

You are looking at the wrong information my friends.

You're using the wrong criteria. I would also call many of these conclusions naive.

[Reverend Joe]

This is totally absurd. I really feel sorry for you, actually.

America is losing the campaign in Iraq?

Elections.

A constitution.

Iraqi Security forces taking over areas of responsibility.

The non-reported peaceful transfer of power when Sunnis gained a small number of seats in the Iraqi congress.

Saddam Hussein in jail and on trial.

Sunni insurgents actively fighting against "Al Qaida in Iraq".

Sunni Insurgents discussing the importance of political participation rather than violence.


America is losing the campaign in Iraq?

You are looking at the wrong information my friends.

I'm sorry, Mr. Kissinger, you're right; you have convinced me the war in Vietnam is justified and winnable.

[hellenes]

What about this:


http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/

Hellenes

[Divinus Arma]

What about this:

What about it?


Addressing the rest of the dissent, It's sad to see such a lack of commitment. These things I mentioned have materialized. Bookmark it Soly. I'll be here next year and the year after.

This isn't vietnam. This is a completely different type of engagement. Sure you can find similarities, but parallel comparisons are absurd. The politics, strategy, intent of operation, and progress are completetly different. The way the war is fought is idfferent. Hell, everything is different! But modern war has its similarities like booby traps, hit and run tactics, and local forces with local agendas.

And Tribesman, what do you mean where am I getting my information? All of this is publicly available.

Our press corps wants to enage in political machinations once again. All the old anchors say that the news media has an obligation more so than simple reporting.

Quit putting your head in the sand and look at the big picture. Cut and run? We would amplify terrorism to the extreme. We can never meet these extremists in the middle. Look at the poor countries involved in this cartoon business. There will be always a reason for them to hate us. We must maintain our course and see it through. I know that is hard for you folks with the "instant gratification" cultural mindset and the others of you with personal hatred towards the west for its support of Israel.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Tachi'

Warfare is used as a means of advancing a political agenda when other means are insufficient.

Div is suggesting that signs of a nascent democracy in Iraq point toward success in establishing a functioning democratic state (other than Israel) in the region. Should that occur, most of the experts I've read suggest that this could engender change that would profoundly influence the region and begin to diminish the root causes and conditions that promote fundamentalist islamic terror groups.

Soly acknowledged that some of these were successes

winning battles means nothing when you lose the war.

though he quite obviously does not see them leading to the kind of successful conclusion I outlined above.

By contrast, you simply dismissed Div's points

You're using the wrong criteria. I would also call many of these conclusions naive.

without addressing their substance. Tribe did address them when he questioned Div's sources.

As to the Vietnam point, despite having grown up during the Vietnam era, I am not and never have been completely disillusioned with my own government. Significant components of our military advised against stepping into the Vietnam conflict, but the political "necessity" of opposing communism over-rode those objections. I wish we hadn't stepped into somebody else's colonial rebellion, but we did. Having done so, we then hamstrung our military by not letting them fight all out -- and they still won tactically (though public opinion and war weariness undercut that).

[solypsist]

Quit putting your head in the sand and look at the big picture.

This is totally absurd. I really feel sorry for you, actually. America is losing the campaign in Iraq?

because this is what "Last Throes" looks like, right?

Report: Iraqi insurgency more confident, coordinated
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/...cnn_topstories

meanwhile, let's look at how the American forces are doing:
http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwash...y/13889046.htm

and how the Iraqi people are doing since "Mission Accomplished"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3962969.stm

Wow - you know if I didn't know better...

[solypsist]

winning battles means nothing when you lose the war. just wait and see. continue to just be contradictory.

/bookmarks this post and thread for review at year's end.

This is totally absurd. I really feel sorry for you, actually.

America is losing the campaign in Iraq?

Elections.

A constitution.

Iraqi Security forces taking over areas of responsibility.

The non-reported peaceful transfer of power when Sunnis gained a small number of seats in the Iraqi congress.

Saddam Hussein in jail and on trial.

Sunni insurgents actively fighting against "Al Qaida in Iraq".

Sunni Insurgents discussing the importance of political participation rather than violence.


America is losing the campaign in Iraq?

You are looking at the wrong information my friends.

[Tribesman]

You are looking at the wrong information my friends.
Where are you getting your information Divinus ?
Not from the Pentagon reports I assume since you keep mentioning Fallujah .
In case you hadn't noticed it now has more terrorist attacks than it did before the assault . This month alone 10% of coilition fatalities have been in fallujah (though it may be more as the last 3 locations havn't yet been released by the DOD and those that die in hospital are only listed with the hospital as the location) .

[Tachikaze]

It's a historical tragedy that mainstream Americans took so long to realize the mistake of Vietnam. Finally, after so much destruction had been done to Vietnam (families and towns destroyed, people burned to death, two entire generations living in horror) and the US (young soldiers maimed or killed, an entire society torn violently in two, the government lies and deception that led to disillusioned and disenfranchized citizens such as me), they slowly grasped the reality.

Well, my friends, it's happening again. Will it take eight years this time?

[Kaiser of Arabia]

looks like rush and the rest of the conservatives need to make jokes to help cover up the fact that america is losing the war in iraq and american dead are piling up. keep laughing, guys.

We'll laugh right until another evil, totalitarian dictator is executed or imprisoned for the rest of his life. Then maybe you guys cna have tea.