Rivers

[Ultras DVSC]

It can be seem a bagatelle thing, but I personally was fairly disturbed by the visualization of the rivers in the RTW. These angular unnatural forms disfigured the besides splendid map. I can’t believe that the guys couldn’t make a better representation of these important natural objects. I hope that in this next project they take a bit more care about it and so create a really nice hydrography.

And if we think about it, rivers should have a lot more significant than adorning the view. A large one e.g. could have been a strong protection and border presuming that there wouldn’t be bridges on them everywhere, which is also a ridiculous factor even in the middle ages. Crossing on rivers should be a circuitous and exhausting activity depending on the width of them.

Another fact, that navigable rivers played an important role in the history. Consequently rivers, which towns and cities which have got navigable rivers they should be allowed to build port and create fleet, even they locate on the middle of the mainland. If the mouth of the river (the main river not the tributary) reaches the sea on the area of another nation, and these don’t permit the sailing across their territory, the first nation should accumulate its fleet on the river, but this way has got a limit in quantity of course.

These are just some ideas, not too great innovations, I wonder what you think about them. Personally I really hope that at least the first will be solved in the second medieval.

[Upxl]

I couldn’t agree more here m8!
These are all very good points.

I don’t care much that the rivers on the battle map are low quality.
But on the campaign map it was indeed a neglected item.

What would you suggest?

Like that building bridges should be done the same way as a fort/tower?
The amount of time it takes depending on the civ. technology, army(ore engineers troops of some sort) and river wide?

Also that ships could be build I agree totally.
But small shallow rivers can only build sloops or such.

Anyway, this topic should be moved to the Medieval Totalwar 2 forum.

[Ultras DVSC]

Yeah building bridges should be an important part of transportation and trade. It could even start a war to demolish the bridge of another nation, it could also increase the income, if you put charge on it, etc. However to this a good zoom function is needed, because tha map is vast and the smaller rivers cannot be represented in this form. In the RTW we have already seen zoom, but still there are a lot to develop on it.

[Conqueror]

Like that building bridges should be done the same way as a fort/tower?
The amount of time it takes depending on the civ. technology, army(ore engineers troops of some sort) and river wide?

That would be good, although you shouldn't need to walk a family member by the river to initiate the construction. Just to point at the desired location on the river somehow. Some other ideas:

- A bridgeless and fordless river would be crossable on the strat map by building rafts. This would require a general in the army, and the army would have to keep standing still by the river for some turns (not that it'd take much time to build rafts, but other factions need a chance to react and move their troops to interfere with the crossing).
- If a hostile faction places troops on the other side of the river, you cannot cross with rafts safely.
- If a hostile faction has ships/boats on the river, you cannot cross with rafts. You first need to get some ships/boats of your own and drive away the enemy.
- To build and maintain ships/boats you need to build a river port.
- River ports would be buildable where you control the territory at least one side of the river.

[Upxl]

That would be good, although you shouldn't need to walk a family member by the river to initiate the construction. Just to point at the desired location on the river somehow. Some other ideas:

- A bridgeless and fordless river would be crossable on the strat map by building rafts. This would require a general in the army, and the army would have to keep standing still by the river for some turns (not that it'd take much time to build rafts, but other factions need a chance to react and move their troops to interfere with the crossing).
- If a hostile faction places troops on the other side of the river, you cannot cross with rafts safely.
- If a hostile faction has ships/boats on the river, you cannot cross with rafts. You first need to get some ships/boats of your own and drive away the enemy.
- To build and maintain ships/boats you need to build a river port.
- River ports would be buildable where you control the territory at least one side of the river.

Very interesting indeed.

But the problem at hand:
why should you cross with rafts when you got a boat for transportation?

[Rheged]

The River Eden in the Lake District National Park.

[Random Dude]

Hmm, really interesting thoughts. I like the idea of being able to build a fleet in a river. However, in order to make it realistic, you should not be able to build a large fleet, or any really large boats. The size of the boats and fleets built in the river, however, should depend on river size. Therefore, they should have some variation in the size of rivers.

Also, I think that rivers should be used for trade more, as has been done historically and in the modern day. Like, you could trade by river to any other province with a river in it. Also, it would be cool if you could transport troops down the river as a faster means of transportation for landlocked territories. I mean like, you wouldn't have to build fleet-sized ships, you could build small boats to travel down river. That could also be a cool thing for, say, the Viking invasions (if that's gonna be in the new game, i'm not sure).

[Upxl]

Me thinks we are asking for to much here.

[Divinus Arma]

I'm sure you folks already knew, but the ORg has great forums on other general topics.

Check out the mod forum for discussion on changing the game. You would be surprised what can be done! Allowing rivers to be navigable has been heavily researched.

If you like realism, try Europa Barbarorum. RTR is a great Mod also, but debate continues as to which is more "real" and true to history!

Or, have an off topic conversation in the Tavern. We Orgahs love to discuss anything from sports to travel to just about anything you can imagine!


See you in the forums...