Help with starting off - SHOGUN

**blazer-glory** · 02-14-2006, 20:18

First hello to everyone. Im the new boy here and alittle battle shy! ;)

Ive only just got hold of SHOGUN and while the manual explains alot it does'nt really help with starting a new campaign. What Id like is a few pointers in what I should be doing when first starting, what to build and where etc and any basic advice that will get me off the ground and on the path to victory!

Thanks.

**econ21** · 02-14-2006, 21:48

The best advice for the campaign is rather faction specific. Some factions are poor and need to be really aggressive - attacking from the first turn or so. I would include Shimazu and Mori in this. Other factions are sitting on gold mines, whether literally or figuratively, so can afford to invest in buildings. This includes some of the eastern ones, notably Hojo. Others have to grapple with a divided kingdom (good luck!). I think Shimazu is a good starter faction as its strategic situation is fairly uncomplicated - kick out Imagawa and then turn on Mori.

OK, but some generic advice. In the early game, you can use your Daimyo to give you an early advantage in battles. His few heavy cavalry can turn the tide of a small battle, but beware of running him into the front of spears (flank charges are good if the front is engaged). I like "balanced" early forces, with some yaris backed by some archers. Ashigaru are actually ok against cav - although cav is rare early on - and since they are fast, can act as early light cavalry, running down routers. Maybe take one or two for that role. Generally, I like to move offensively on the campaign map, but fight defensively on the tactical map. Use overwhelming force to seize a province without bloodshed (the AI retreats) and try to force him to come at you, especially in a mountainous province where you can camp on a hill. Avoid attacking bridge provinces unless you have overwhelming numbers. Conversely, such provinces make excellent defensive bottlenecks. Try to advance so as to minimise your frontline, but maximise the number of neighbouring provinces you could attack, forcing the AI to spread its defenses. Be aware that the strategic AI cheats, IIRC, and can sometimes react to your movements - it's annoying, but at least it means the game is challenging (harder than MTW and RTW, IMO).

In terms of building, try to find a nice province with iron to set up troop building provinces. Also look out for provinces that give bonuses for particular unit types and develop the infrastructure for them. Take note of what your faction advantages are and try to leverage them. I like to have limited troop building provinces - maybe one for archers, one for cav and one for spears. The key tech buildings to aim for are those for warrior monks - which are awesome anti-infantry infantry - and for cavalry - which are essential for hovering up routers. Beyond that always keep upgrading those provinces for armour (that's why you need the iron) and weapons etc. In terms of economic upgrades, ports and mines seem good - but only upgrade agricultural land that is described as rich or something similar. The more hungry factions may have less luxury to make such investments though.

Have fun!

**blazer-glory** · 02-14-2006, 21:57

Many thanks, thats very helpful. :)

One thing I did noticed, when I was just messing around, was when I invaded a nearby enemies region the enemy was'nt there! No castle,no fortress, not even an army ,nothing. How come there was no one there? It was occupied as it had units postioned in it on the map.

**econ21** · 02-14-2006, 23:09

In STW, the enemy armies often "bug out" if they think they have little chance of stopping you in a battle. They will retreat to a neighbouring province. It is one of the things that makes the game challenging - they are not that easy to kill off piecemeal.

You can try to avoid this by cutting off their retreat - isolating provinces so the armies have no where to retreat. In MTW, I remember taking wiping out a faction with 3 provinces with no losses. I did this by attacking all 3 provinces simultaneously with overwhelming force - each of the 3 enemy armies retreated into one of its two neighbouring provinces, but since I was taking them all, they just disappeared instead.

**blazer-glory** · 02-14-2006, 23:36

lol Thanks. :)

**blazer-glory** · 02-15-2006, 00:55

Whats the best Clan to start with? The Uesugi and the Hojo look like they could be good for first timers. (??)

**PseRamesses** · 02-15-2006, 14:49

Originally Posted by blazer-glory

First hello to everyone. Im the new boy here and alittle battle shy! ;)

Ive only just got hold of SHOGUN and while the manual explains alot it does'nt really help with starting a new campaign. What Id like is a few pointers in what I should be doing when first starting, what to build and where etc and any basic advice that will get me off the ground and on the path to victory!

Thanks.

As a newbie you should start off as the Shimazu and secure the three islands asap. You´ll also be the first to come in contact with the Portugese and the Dutch which will give you some advatages like gunpowder/ guns. You can also convert to christianity and the churches will generate an extra income. However your new faith will generate some unrest in newly conquered provinces. As what to build, begin with money generating things as conquest is based on money.

**cannon_fodder** · 02-15-2006, 20:04

After a bit of experimentation, I found the best thing to do (as far as your military is concerned) is to swamp your enemies with hordes of Yari Samurai. Seriously, you don't actually need anything else. Of course, you won't get the maximum possible enjoyment from the game this way.

I would say the Uesugi are the best starting clan.

**blazer-glory** · 02-17-2006, 10:47

One thing that crossed my mind was how can you tell if your defeat was down to lack of numbers and not bad tatics?

**Ludens** · 02-17-2006, 14:09

Originally Posted by blazer-glory

One thing that crossed my mind was how can you tell if your defeat was down to lack of numbers and not bad tatics?

You cannot. The difference between victory and defeat can depend on so many things, like terrain, weather, troop types, numbers, tactics and the number of command stars the general has, that it is often hard to say whether a battle is winnable. It takes experience to determine which odds you can take-on under given conditions, and as your experience grows you will be able to win against worser odds.

So the answer to your question is: experience, but that is not a helpfull one. When I started Shogun, I needed a big hill to gain a decisive advantage. When I had played it for half a year, I could trash armies almost twice my size (and I don't consider myself a good player).

**blazer-glory** · 02-17-2006, 16:58

Yikes! Looks like I got alot to learn! :s

**econ21** · 02-17-2006, 22:15

Originally Posted by blazer-glory

One thing that crossed my mind was how can you tell if your defeat was down to lack of numbers and not bad tatics?

I think you'll know. Sometimes, a battle just seems to work like clockwork. I feel like Hannibal in the "A-team" - I just love it when a plan comes together. Other times, it's like a nightmare as warrior monks come crashing out a wood into your flank and are amongst you before you can reform your lines (ah, good times...).

On the numbers - you should win on a 1:1 battle. You are a human, not a stupid machine. Soon you'll be fighting with near full stacks and since the AI can only bring one full stack onto the field at any one time, you should only lose due to attrition (you may end up praying for the battle timer to run out, as the reinforcements keep pouring in and you were out of arrows long ago.)

On the tactics - ask yourself, did the battle go according to your plan? Or were you reacting to the AIs? You'll soon be able to tell whether you were in control.