Hastatis kill my hoplites

[kofti]

I am playing with greek cities. i am fighting with green romans and blue romans at the same time. United the greece land, but can't get appolania. My only infantry is hoplites ( some towns armored hoplites ), they are so lousy, they cant run, and hastatis can kill them easily. Don't have Greek cities have some units that is an advantage ?

[Shadow]

I think the reason that your hoplites can't run is because they are in phalanx square. The hoplites should be able to take those hastatis with out much of a problem. Why not try using the phalanx to hold the enemy and send some calavry into their rear.

[econ21]

I think in a face-to-face fight, phalanxes should beat hastati. I recall that in a German campaign, my spear phalanxes could walk over the Romans with virtually no loss. Armoured hoplites in particular have good stats and should do well.

The problem for me with phalanxes is getting the hastati to get into a face-to-face scrap. The hastati move faster, as you say, so if they want to run past you, it is very hard for a phalanx to catch them. And the Greeks are lacking good flankers for the edges of their phalanx line.

I would recommend you hire Cretan archers and get other missile troops so you can punish enemies that do not close. You probably have to accept that your phalanx is not going to move fast, so let ranged troops pressure the enemy as you plod along.

Get a sufficient number of phalanxes that you can present a reasonably solid link and make it harder for the Romans to go at your hoplites piecemeal. It's all about making sure that when it comes to it, the Romans are facing your pointy sticks and not your flanks.

On your flanks, you might try militia cavalry - they are useful for harassment and later for pursung routers. There may be some mercs you can hire to act as flankers with more punch - Bastarnae infantry and Sarmatian heavy cavalry, for example. But Greeks do suffer from lack of variety - you basically have phalanxes and have to learn how to use them.

[Leonin Khan]

on wich settings are you playing...that should make a real difference

[orangat]

The problem is that long pike phalanx units in RTW is bugged/broken. Such units have trouble engaging enemies in phalanx mode which is why the BI expansion removed many of such units (instead of fixing the root problem).

I wonder if the supposedly free Alexander campaign fixes the problem.

[_Aetius_]

Lately i've developed a tactic that I think will largely negate the Roman infantrys superior speed.

As Simon stated the Greeks lack good flankers and hastati can easily whip around behind phalanxs who struggle to catch them. My solution is to put your phalanxs on the flanks and have a softer centre say bastarnae infantry or thracians, with Sarmatian heavy cavalry behind them to ensure the infantry doesnt break easily.

Your best troops will be on the flanks and the enemy will have a much longer trip trying to wrap around you if your line is longer and your phalanxs are on the flanks with cavalry and peltast support. Many will be drawn into your softer centre, which means your flanks have a good opportunity to envelop the enemy, if your centre looks like its close to breaking, charge your cavalry into the enemy infantry and if it is indeed hastati then they'll likely break and flee.

It is risky, but I think by having your best troops on the wings you compensate for the Greeks' lack of good flanking troops and the enemies ability to flank you. You can hire mercenaries to improve your cavalry and offer adequate support to your flanks and centre along with archers or slingers.

I've tried it a few times and it does work, you just need to ensure you have good cavalry support, once you break the Roman wings you can quite easily converge on the Roman centre already embattled with your own centre and win the battle.

[General4Hire]

The problem is that long pike phalanx units in RTW is bugged/broken. Such units have trouble engaging enemies in phalanx mode which is why the BI expansion removed many of such units (instead of fixing the root problem).

I wonder if the supposedly free Alexander campaign fixes the problem.

Sega/CA never implied in any way shape or form that Alexander was going to be free. All that's happened is that tons of members of the community have hoped/speculated whether it will be or not...that's IT.

So no...there is no "supposedly free Alexander Campaign"...total fantasy, no such animal.

[Quietus]

I am playing with greek cities. i am fighting with green romans and blue romans at the same time. United the greece land, but can't get appolania. My only infantry is hoplites ( some towns armored hoplites ), they are so lousy, they cant run, and hastatis can kill them easily. Don't have Greek cities have some units that is an advantage ?

Do Greeks have basic archers?

1) If so, position the archers in long lines behind the phalanxes and waste the Hastati first with arrows. Hire mercenary cretan archers if you don't have one. Preferably, shoot and weaken the units on the fringe where you will flank later but you need to weaken all his units, especially the ones upfront.

2) Then, right-click-drag and run the phalanxes in front of the hastati in normal mode. Then switch to phalanx formation. (use this if you want an accurately rendered line)

3) OR better yet Charge with your phalanx in normal mode, then before impact, halt, then switch to phalanx mode. (use this if the enemy are in disarray and making a long line doesn't matter).

4) Use your general's cavalry to flank the seams of the line. You can also use hoplites to flank using step 2 or 3 (only you use it to the flank or the back instead of the front).

Lastly, be wary of the elite roman troops. Arrows do not significantly hurt those fellas. And use a General with a 'healer' retinue. Also, when the AI has heavy cavalry, make the phalanx depth thicker (they can really chew on them really fast).

[x-dANGEr]

First of all, if you're play on VH battle diff, hesitaties will chew your phalanx no matter what in 1 on 1 I think.

Though, if on normal settings, their is one thing you need to understand about phalanx, they aren't for walking, they are for standing. I mean, keeping your phalanx braced gives them the strangth, so make the enemy run to you, and watch it's ultimate death. As Greek Cities, I think you should make a box, and draw enemy to you with archers fire/onagers..

[Quietus]

First of all, if you're play on VH battle diff, hesitaties will chew your phalanx no matter what in 1 on 1 I think.

First, what unit size are you guys using? The huge unit size is practically impenetrable to normal troops.

Secondly, hence an archer-backed phalanxes are necessary. Or else, those Hastati and Principes will unload their pila first.

Other than that, the pre-marian troops are really outclassed by regular phalanxes.

How many phalanx units do other players put into a full stack army?

Depending on the enemy troop types, the corresponding unit quality and timeframe if the phalanx is available already (eg. Pontus). A Mercenary Hoplite to 8 phalanx pikemen, normally.

On Regular midcampaign battles as Pontus, it is 6-8 phalanx pikemen normally.

[kofti]

Update using hoplites and fighting romans

1 ) I wiped out green and blue romans. on my way to rome, and red ones now.
2 ) I learned to make my hoplite out of phalanx mode than back.
3 ) I am using them close on flanks so nobody gets between, they only fight in front.
4 ) I started to use archers.

I checked the unit guide, It says cretan archers and rhodian slingers. Can I make them or are they mercenaries limited to certain areas ? Also can I make spartan hoplites in every city or only in certain cities ?

thanks for all your help. Greeks are really fun to play with. I am fighting with selucids and pontus on the east, red romans and carthage on the west now. ( campaign and battle difficulty : hard )

[Watchman]

Cretans and Rhodians are both mercs. You can find them around the Aegean Sea, and of course the appropriate isles. The Balearic Slingers available in parts of Western Med are virtually identical to the Rhodians.

Spartans can only be trained in Sparta. Tough love.

[Ludens]

I checked the unit guide, It says cretan archers and rhodian slingers. Can I make them or are they mercenaries limited to certain areas ? Also can I make spartan hoplites in every city or only in certain cities ?

Cretan Archers and Rhodian Singers are mercenaries, but are listed with the Greek faction in the unit guide because they are available to Greece in MP. You can hire Cretans on Sicily, Crete and Greece. Rhodians are available on Rhodes and south-west Asia Minor. Spartans can be recruited only in Sparta (and Syracuse if you use the 1.2 patch).