Catholic Faction Army

[Powermonger]

Just wondering what fellow Catholic faction players have in their stacks, for offense and defence through the different eras?

[matteus the inbred]

knights, with more knights on top. maybe knights in reserve too.

Seriously; I like to take a bit of everything and play mainly in early; I like 4 feudal sergeants, two archers, 2-4 FMAA (replaced by Swabian swords if I'm HRE, they kick butt and look great), 2-4 royal knights and 2-4 mounted sergeants/mounted crossbows.

Later on the knights get upgraded to chivalric, the archers get completely or partially replaced by arbs, and I tend to field the latest swordsmen if I can.

I also field occasional mercs to replace knights or FMAA, usually druzhina as they can partly replace either, or Khwarazmians if I'm a bit desperate. They might not be as good as knights or kats, but I find the AI is terrified of them.

As I'm fairly HRE and Italian specific right now, Genoese sailors and Italian infantry replace the FS and Bows, or Swiss Halberdiers replace some/all of the spears/FMAA in High. Only field UM at the beginning or if I'm desperate. Artillery tends to be mostly merc (I hire whenever it's available and retain until it's needed, unless I lack florins) and is kept in one or two big 'siege trains'.

[Ciaran]

Four sergeants, each two swords, polearms (militia sergants or above) and cavalry, and three ranged units (two archers, one crossbow type) are the basis. The three remaining slots get filled by whatever might be needed, usually a General and two extra units, swords or polearms if the army´s going to be attacking, an additional archer and crossbow if it´s likely to be defending. When the demi-culverine is available that´s the weapon of choice for the two free slots.

But, as a matter of fact, in the campaign I usually have more than one army per province, so what actually marches onto the battlefield can vary. For example, I like having an archer-heavy first wave and keep the knights in reserve.

[matteus the inbred]

But, as a matter of fact, in the campaign I usually have more than one army per province, so what actually marches onto the battlefield can vary. For example, I like having an archer-heavy first wave and keep the knights in reserve.

Definitely agree, my offensive and defensive armies vary in the amount of archers and 'killy' stuff...more archers for defence, more swords and cavalry for attack, although I'm rarely given to fielding no cavalry at all, even if it has to be hobilars or viking raiders. Not much of a jav fan, as that really relies on the AI not flanking and basically being so good as to stroll up to your battleline and engage without a care in the world. I'll field them if I have to, but I think a unit of archers is a better investment.
Artillery only features in defence, and then rarely...

Big Fan Of: mounted x-bows, Swabians, Swiss Halberdiers, Italian LI, all sortsa knights (especially feudal)
Not a Big Fan Of: peasants anywhere near a battlefield, Slav anythings, ballistae, jinettes in the opposition army...! Dunno whether early Spanish forces really qualify as a 'Catholic' army (not as in their religion, but the sort of things they field before they get Lancers)?

[Knight Templar]

In general, I 'd put 3-4 swords, 2-3 polearms (in earlier era chiv/feud sergeants), 3 archers, 2 light and 3-4 heavy cavarly.
Of course choice of troops depends on terrain very much: if the terrain is desert, I'll take more archers and lightly armoured troops, if it's bridge, I take less cav, if it's hilly i take more spears/poleamrs who can hold position when fighting uphill, if it's forest, I take more swords and poleamrns and less cav and spears. If I'm defending on forrest terrain, I take more cav as ambush troops.

[Procrustes]

I love dismounted chiv knights once I get to high. I'll bring extra knights and then dismount half of them.

[Boris of Bohemia]

I love dismounted chiv knights once I get to high. I'll bring extra knights and then dismount half of them.

It's easy to mod the foot knights to be buildable if you want them, download the gnome editor

http://www.mizus.com/Tools/Files/

and find the entry in crusaders_unit_prod11.txt

Or else, build the cathedral next to an iron province. A cathedral-trained halberd retrained at a +2 metalsmith is almost a 60-man CFK, less one point of attack and 2 points of morale, and non-elite. Most Catholic factions can arrange this in adjacent provinces by 1205, except probably the French and Sicilians. A militia sargeant so trained is almost a JHI, less the same. It's a neat trick.

[ajaxfetish]

No need to mod them. Chivalric knights can dismount on any battlefield, and so training the mounted version allows more flexibility.

Ajax

[BrSpiritus]

I usually invariably play as the English so:

Early 2 Saxon Huscarles
2 Norman Foot Knights
4 Fyrdmen
3 Archers
2 Hobilars/Feudal Seargents
2 Norman Knights
1 Royal Knight (General's Unit)

High 2 Norman Foot Knights
2 Chiv MAA
2 Billmen
2 Chiv Foot
2 Pav Arbalests
1 Longbow
2 Norman Knights
2 Chivalric Knights
1 Royal Knights (General's Unit)

Late 8 Arqebusiers
4 Serpentines
3 Assorted Cavalry (Whatever I have on hand that is high Valour)
1 Royal Knights (General's Unit)

Castle Busting Early And High
6Trebuchets
8 Swordsmen
2 Cav +General

Castle Busting Late
8 Culverins
4 Serpentines
4 Swordsmen or Halberdiers to mop up the mess :)

Defense Army Early and High
3 Archers (1 Longbow + 2 Pav Arbs high)
4 Spearmen, Chiv Seargents etc. (Halbs or Billmen on high)
4 FMAA or CMAA
4 dismountable cav units
1 General

Defense Late
4 Arquebusiers
6 Pikemen
4 Serpentines
2 Cav +General

Alot of people dismiss the use of Arquebusiers but with a few historically accurate mods they reach their potential. Mine are modded to .5 accuracy, range to 12,000, armour piercing ON. Load time can be modded to 20 but I always use 3 ranks so it doesn't make much difference. Arqs also make decent swordsmen in a melee if they have some valour.

BrSpiritus

[Quietus]

My old MTW configuration (vanilla).

Early:
1 Royal Knight
6-7 Spears (up to Feudal Sergeants)
3-4 Archers
1 or 2 Light Cavalry (Steppe Cavalry preferably).
1 or 2 Militia Sergeants
1 or 2 FMAA
2 Urban Militia or Woodsmen.

[littlebktruck]

Recently I tried to use an army with FMAA as the base (6 fmaa, 3 feudal sergeants, 4ish archers, the rest knights).

Not a good idea. They were just ruined.

[NodachiSam]

I'd probably have something more specific if I did MP so I usually use what is at hand. Usually I have something about 1/3 spear, 1/3 shock infantry, 1/3 archer and later in the game 1/4 spear, 1/4 shock/ 1/4 archer, 1/4 calvary. During defense I use more archers and spears and during offense I use more calv and fewer archers. In any situation when I am in doubt I pick spears or horse archers.

[Scurvy]

normally as english i take (online)

4 chiv knights (including gen)
4 order foots
4 longbows
4 pavise arbelesters

[Loucipher]

Just until recently, I almost exclusively used a 4x4 configuration:
4x missile type (4x Archers in Early, 2x Crossbows + 2x Arbalesters from High on)
4x spear type (4x Spearmen or Feudal Sergeants in Early, 2x Feudal Sergeants + 2x Chivalric Sergeants from High on, yet to play factions which field Gothic units)
4x close combat type (4x Urban Militia, then 3x FMAA + 1x Militia Sergeants in Early, 2x Chivalric Men-at-Arms + 2x Halberdiers from High on, never used Gothic units as said above)
4x cavalry type (2x Feudal Knights / Royal Knights + 2x lighter, usually faction-dependent fast or missile cavalry in Early, from High on Feudal Knights get upgraded to Chivalric Knights, in Late sometimes they get replaced by faction-dependent heavy cavalry, also in Late proportions shift to 3x Heavy Cavalry + 1x Fast cavalry, as the armies basically get more infantry-oriented, slower and more armoured towards the Late period).
Some might say this looks like putting too many eggs into one basket, but it isn't the case. It is a good all-around army, capable of almost any task - whether offensive or defensive.
Recently, I began to build specialized armies:

Overrun Attack army (general composition, not era-dependent):
2x missile type (preferably mounted crossbowmen)
5x heavy cavalry
4x swordsmen
3x armour-piercing troops
2x fast skirmishing cavalry
This army wins offensive battles by simultaneous frontal attack by infantry and flanking manoeuvers by the cavalry (I always try to manoeuvre the heavy cavalry into one of the flanks, so that I roll over the entire enemy battle line). The casualty multipliers are missile fire and pursuit moves against fleeing troops.
Typical attack action ends with a 11:1 kill ratio.

Solid Defence army (general composition again):
5x spear types
5x missile types
2xclose combat types
1x fast cavalry (preferably missile)
(that usually makes up for the 960 men limit)
This army just stands and lasts. Solid spearwalls form the main defensive line as missile troops unleash volley after volley from behind. Enemy archer types are usually attacked by fast cavalry, which also acts as bait for enemy units to stay in the main fire zone. Enemy close combat units that pass the hail of arrows are finished by defending fresh close combat units. Cavalry gets usually beaten by the spearwalls so they are of no concern.
Typical defensive action ends with a 9:1 kill ratio.

Castle Assault army (general composition):
5x siege equipment
7x close combat types (preferably armoured ones)
1x spear type
3x missile type
The siege equipment of this army knocks off the towers, breaks the walls and then the close combat units slaughter any remaining defenders. The spear type is there to provide cover against some oddball cavalry that might have got hemmed inside the castle walls. The missile troops soften the defenders, concentrating their fire on the most threatening units (cavalry, armour-piercing troops etc.) first.
Due to the inherent danger of sustaining losses during castle assaults typical assault action results in a 4:1 kill ratio.

[rvg]

Just wondering what fellow Catholic faction players have in their stacks, for offense and defence through the different eras?

w/ Danes my core army consists of Vikings (+ any leftover Huscarls from Early) and substantial missile support. Some light cavalry to mop up, and maybe a RK General unit.

As a Dane, I never use any spears, swords, pikes, or polearms as axe is better than all of those combined.

Vikes crush anything and everything in melee for a VERY cheap cost, while missile troops keep the ranged combat parity.

[gunslinger]

I usually have several stacks around, so that I can pick and choose the makeup of my army based on that of the enemy. I generally don't have more than 3 units of archers on the field at a time, 2 units of spears spread out 3 1/2 ranks deep, 6 or 7 men at arms and billmen combined (depending on the enemy) and the rest cavalry. I've really fallen for the English billmen trained in Mercia for the valor upgrade and retrained in an iron province with the max weapon and armor upgrade available at the time. Those guys absolutely slaughter any cavalry that gets near them, especially if I am using one of my 8 or 9 star generals. They are so effective that I end up using my cavallry as an anvil to keep the enemy cavalry from running away so that my billmen can act as the hammer and rack up some kills.

I only use crossbows and arbs when I'm fighting those massive stacks of horse archers that the horde sends my way. pavs are the only way to make any headway against them since they are so fast and never sit still to take a beating. I guess I would also use pavs against the big stacks of jinettes except that I always knock out the Spanish before pavs are available because I want all those Iron provinces and because I can defend all that land on the penninsula with just one army in Cordoba.

[Ciaran]

From my experience plain archers are enough to handle the missile cavalry threat, they´ve got a bigger range (than the missile cav) and a high rate of fire, compared to crossbows or arbalests. And there are few heavily armoured mounted missiles, so using crossbow types don´t utilize their AP capability - I rather use them to snipe generals or other heavily armoured units.

[matteus the inbred]

From my experience plain archers are enough to handle the missile cavalry threat, they´ve got a bigger range (than the missile cav) and a high rate of fire, compared to crossbows or arbalests

generally i would agree, but against low morale horse archery types the crossbows can get off one volley that knocks half the regiment off and makes the rest run, whereas vanilla archers kill them three of four at a time. but yeah, basically any foot shooters will do and archers can keep firing once they've been withdrawn behind the infantry. I only use mounted xbows, not foot ones, a combo of arbs and archers works fine, with the mounted xbows hunting and destroying armoured stuff like you say.

[mfberg]

Early
4 x Spearmen, Fyrdmen, or Feudal Sgts
4 x Archers
3 x Attack infantry - Men at arms, Highlander, Swabians, Militia Sgts
2 x Mounted Crossbow or 2 more archers
3 x Holibar, Light, Medium or Heavy/Royal Cavalry - I usually don't use feudal knights for anything

On defense I will include a catapult or ballista or two in place of an attack infantry and archer.

High
4 X Feudal Sgts
3 x Pavise x bow or Pavise arbs
3 x Archers or Longbow
3 x Halbreds, Billmen or Attack infantry
3 x Heavy Cavalry - Chivalric Knights and Royal Knights
Gunpowder and Cannon mercenaries

Late
Wait, there is a Late period in this game? I don't have much experience in late, I have never had to make a late army because all of my enemies are too weak to make up one of their own.

4 x SAP or gold/gold pikemen
4 x Pavise Arbs
2 x Demi-Culvs/Serpentine
3 x Attack Infantry
3 x Chivalric/Gothic/Royal Cavalry

mfberg

[Asmodai]

My armies tends to be rather cavalry, than infantry based..

4-6 units of heavy cav(Knights of any type that are available at the moment)
2-4 units of light melee cav(hobilars, mounted sergeant, steppe cav, whatever is available at the moment)
4-6 units of shooty cav(mainly mounted crossbows, jinetes, heavy steppe...few catholic factions cant have shooty cav, so i pick some swordsmen units and additional heavy cav.
up to 4 foot contigent...depends on faction, enemy and battlefield. Some swordsmen, spearmen, shooters on foot...whatever i need at the moment.

The only exceptions to this rule are English and Germans.

On early the combo above is generaly the same, but in High and late...

4-6 Heavy cav(feudal/chiv/royal/templars)
2-4 hobbys/mounted sergeants
min 4 longbowmen units.
rest for bilmens, swordsmen (usualy gallows/highlands clansmen or CMAA)

Germans are mainly infantry based and defensive armies are dependant on enemy, that borders with them.

2-4 Spearmen type(preferably the best available) or mix with polearm type(MS or Halb/SHalb)
or...2-4 Swiss armoured pikemen.
2-4 shooters on foot(the best available)
2 heavy cav(knights, the best available)
2 light cav(usualy mounted xbows)
Spare "slots" go to swordmen type units(Swabian swordsmen preferably, in late for additional gothic knights)
0-1 organ gun/serpentine.

For assault, i prefer using my cav mix listed above.

Few units i dislike, so i rarely use them:
Peasants of any sort..
Siege engines...well, i build few for opening castles. Nothing more.
Halberdiers...strange, the chiv are far better, good for garrison duty i think.
Handgunners of any sort. Big noise and little effect. And very often it rains.

[rvg]

From High on, the composition of my Catholic army is very, very simple:

4 Pavise Arbalests, 6 Chivalric Knights (Dismounted), 6 Chivalric Knights (Mounted).

[antisocialmunky]

Personally a Knight spam army is really boring. I personally like to stick with the 5 Spears, 3 MMAs, 4 Knights, 2 Arbs, 2 Light Cavalry(Jinettes).

However, I usually play English so its more like: 2 Arbs, 6 L-Bows, 2/3 CS, 2/3 MAA/Billmen, 2 Knights, 1/2 Jinettes.

[rvg]

[QUOTE=antisocialmunky]...Personally a Knight spam army is really boring...
[QUOTE]
Well yeah, it certainly isn't the most creative army setup, but it is very effective. What I enjoy is seeing this army take on thousands and live through it.

Another one I like, is an all-mounted Army. Usually with Poles or Hungarians, with a CK/MtXbow/Steppe HCav and CK/MtXbow/Szek combos respectively.
Tons of fun.

[antisocialmunky]

Well.. if you want to see something go through thousands of enemy. Fight the mongols in a river battle as the English with 3 backup stacks of L-Bows. Better yet, just turn limitted ammo off. But then again, you could always make a Jassinary Spam Army or Gothic Knight Spam Army.

[Asmodai]

Well, historicaly, medieval armies were mainly composed of knights, cos they believed, that mounted man is worth more than 100 foot men.

Good infantry units were rare, and they appeared mostly in regions, that cavalry actions were difficult(switzerland for example).

Also, as long, as the pike were not invented, cavalry ruled battlefields. (with few exceptions but in general, knight was the best weapon available in medieval era)

[rvg]

Well.. if you want to see something go through thousands of enemy. Fight the mongols in a river battle as the English with 3 backup stacks of L-Bows. Better yet, just turn limitted ammo off. But then again, you could always make a Jassinary Spam Army or Gothic Knight Spam Army.

Speaking of Gothic Knights, are they really that good? I have yet to play a German or an Italian game, are those units really worth the wait?

[antisocialmunky]

Gothic Knights are pretty much super Kataphractoi and their dismounted counterpart is the only sword unit that can beat Jassinary Heavy Infantry man per man. Not really worth up, but oyu can get a nice +1 Valour in Saxony.

@Asmodoi - I don't know where you learned your history but Knights never did compose most of an army... ever except in those rare occassions. Knights were not that great, they were devastating but people found ways to get around that. Just look at the 100 Year's war.

And as for the pike being 'uninvented,' they are some of the oldest weapons in existance. The pointy thing on a stick idea is second only to the heavy thing on a stick idea in age.

[Loucipher]

Antisocialmunky: I'd say that medieval army compositions might have been resembling those known all too well by us - a little bit of everything. Mounted Knights are by no means a "universal weapon", supposed to flush everything else from the battlefield.
Yet, you must admit that until the Scottish Wars (and the ignominous defeat at Bannockburn) English armies were relying upon heavy cavalry shock to decide the outcome of battles. This must have stemmed from the tactics they had adopted during the earlier French-English wars, where clashes of iron-clad mounted warriors were not that uncommon... Only after the Scottish period (somewhere along the Early to High transition, speaking in game terms) the English army began fielding predominantly infantry, much of that polearm-equipped.
As far as the Central European wars are concerned, the terrain there was well suited to cavalry tactics, and as we progress geographically east, local people were increasingly more accustomed to horseback life. Thus most of the eastern nations' armies was composed predominantly of cavalry and had to be countered also with cavalry.

[Roark]

Pikes used in a cohesive unit of men was a relatively late development though, Munkyman...

To echo an earlier sentiment: Yes, Gothic knights are worth it. Destruction ahoy.

[antisocialmunky]

That's only if you ignore everything before the fall of Rome along with the rest of the world.