Saddam repays the Left for their support for him...

[Devastatin Dave]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4707626.stm

Its good to see Saddam using the same chants as his greatest supporters. I think some of you owe him a card for Valentines Day.

[rory_20_uk]

Yes, it's true - two sides can share an enemy if that enemy is great enough. Look at both America and the USSR joined against Hitler. Were they mates because of this?

Pretty weak cheap shot IMO. You can do a lot better than this...

[Devastatin Dave]

Pretty weak cheap shot IMO. You can do a lot better than this...

Not really, take away Saddam's showers for a month, put him in a tie-die t-shirt, slap some sandals on him, give him a few bong hits, and he would look and SOUND like your usual protestor on the street blaming Bush for everything. Much like how many here compare Bush to Hitler or myself to a Nazi for my beliefs, Why can't I show the comparison of Saddam to the left and the slogans they use?

[rory_20_uk]

Sure, you can. But sadly that makes you further into the caracature that some state you are. Slinging mud generally makes the thrower as dirty as to whom the mud hits (very deep that - just thought of it).

People who are completely against the war seem to have a mental block as you point out here that it means they are ipso facto pro Saddam. I support the action, but not the method that was used to bring it out. One could argue that any ends justify the means, but I have the luxary of disagreeing.

Of course the "invasion" should have been in 1991, and perhaps a more blunt "we're going to finish the job like we should have" would have upset more in the short term, but would have paid off in the long term.

Basically, anyone who puts ideas above people are extremely dangerous, as very quickly they will have people killed or ignore the killing of people to preserve or justify those ideals.

[Tachikaze]

Not really, take away Saddam's showers for a month, put him in a tie-die t-shirt, slap some sandals on him, give him a few bong hits, and he would look and SOUND like your usual protestor on the street blaming Bush for everything. Much like how many here compare Bush to Hitler or myself to a Nazi for my beliefs, Why can't I show the comparison of Saddam to the left and the slogans they use?

Thank you for the description of a Bush protestor. I guess Hussein was in disguise.

I had no idea Noam Chomsky did bong hits and didn't take showers. Those highly-educated, urbane, world-renown developers of modern theories of language acquisition are a devious lot.

[Goofball]

Pretty weak cheap shot IMO. You can do a lot better than this...

No, he can't.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Rush Limbaugh was way ahead of the pack on this.

Posted on 12/21/2005 6:25:52 PM PST by RushCrush


BEGIN TRANSCRIPT

You see Saddam today? Saddam is claiming he was beaten and tortured. (Laughing.) Did I not tell you? Did I not tell you this is exactly what Saddam was going to say? He would slowly but surely adopt the entire strategery of the Democratic Party in mounting his defense. So he says he was beaten and tortured, says he's got all kinds of marks on his body to prove it. Frankly, I'm not interested in seeing any of them if they are indeed there -- and I don't believe it for a moment -- but he showed back up at his trial today. He was very quiet for awhile, then he had an outburst and said he was tortured. This was in the midst of testimony where some victim was testifying how Saddam's thugs had tortured him. So it's just humorous to watch all of this.

END TRANSCRIPT

[Xiahou]

Personally, I think they should slap a muzzle on him when he's in court... or maybe put him in a soundproof box so he can't keep disrupting the trial.

[Devastatin Dave]

Personally, I think they should slap a muzzle on him when he's in court... or maybe put him in a soundproof box so he can't keep disrupting the trial.

But if they did that, where would Howard Dean get his talking points?

[Paul Peru]

Yeah, that's my guy! I'm sorry I never supported him now, seeing how he's the WMD of cool in court

[Major Robert Dump]

But if they did that, where would Howard Dean get his talking points?

YEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

Saddam needs to use that one in court

[Watchman]

Huh. Ole bastard Saddam has apparently long since decided to go down in style, and with maximum inconvenience to the victors.

Ten bucks says he picks choice lines and mannerisms from the TV in his cell between sessions.

[Lemur]

Perhaps we need a new corollary to Godwin's Law to cover this sort of thread?

[solypsist]

looks like rush and the rest of the conservatives need to make jokes to help cover up the fact that america is losing the war in iraq and american dead are piling up. keep laughing, guys.

[Tribesman]

You defeatist Soly , they are winning .
Car bombings have fallen from over 800 down to 400
Roadside bombing have fallen from 10,000 to 5,000 .

ummmmm... actually I think I may have got those numbers the wrong way round

[Divinus Arma]

Just for you who think you know what is really going on in Iraq, I thought I would share a wee bit of info.

A fellow Marine who just came back from Iraq spoke with me about his experience. First of all, he spent most of his time in either Al Taqadum or Fallujah for the last nine months or so. Second of all, to give you background on this guy, he is a total independant and does not relate to any party. I know him as a total "straight shooter" who is deadpan honest. He has no reason to elaborate one way or the other on anything. He was just bored. It is slowing down big time over there all across the country. Yes, there are still a few trouble spots such as parts of Baghdad sometimes and al Ramadi but generally speaking, there just is no action.

This seems to be the consenus. Things are slowing down, winding down, wrapping up, whatever you want to call it.


Is that defeat?

[Divinus Arma]

looks like rush and the rest of the conservatives need to make jokes to help cover up the fact that america is losing the war in iraq and american dead are piling up. keep laughing, guys.

This is totally absurd. I really feel sorry for you, actually.

America is losing the campaign in Iraq?

Elections.

A constitution.

Iraqi Security forces taking over areas of responsibility.

The non-reported peaceful transfer of power when Sunnis gained a small number of seats in the Iraqi congress.

Saddam Hussein in jail and on trial.

Sunni insurgents actively fighting against "Al Qaida in Iraq".

Sunni Insurgents discussing the importance of political participation rather than violence.


America is losing the campaign in Iraq?

You are looking at the wrong information my friends.

[Soulforged]

Its good to see Saddam using the same chants as his greatest supporters. I think some of you owe him a card for Valentines Day.

Saddam!!!! I want my share!!

[Sasaki Kojiro]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4707626.stm

Its good to see Saddam using the same chants as his greatest supporters. I think some of you owe him a card for Valentines Day.

Unfortunately we on the left don't have the power of tiger hand...or pen missile...

[Tachikaze]

This is totally absurd. I really feel sorry for you, actually.

America is losing the campaign in Iraq?

Elections.

A constitution.

Iraqi Security forces taking over areas of responsibility.

The non-reported peaceful transfer of power when Sunnis gained a small number of seats in the Iraqi congress.

Saddam Hussein in jail and on trial.

Sunni insurgents actively fighting against "Al Qaida in Iraq".

Sunni Insurgents discussing the importance of political participation rather than violence.


America is losing the campaign in Iraq?

You are looking at the wrong information my friends.

You're using the wrong criteria. I would also call many of these conclusions naive.

[Reverend Joe]

This is totally absurd. I really feel sorry for you, actually.

America is losing the campaign in Iraq?

Elections.

A constitution.

Iraqi Security forces taking over areas of responsibility.

The non-reported peaceful transfer of power when Sunnis gained a small number of seats in the Iraqi congress.

Saddam Hussein in jail and on trial.

Sunni insurgents actively fighting against "Al Qaida in Iraq".

Sunni Insurgents discussing the importance of political participation rather than violence.


America is losing the campaign in Iraq?

You are looking at the wrong information my friends.

I'm sorry, Mr. Kissinger, you're right; you have convinced me the war in Vietnam is justified and winnable.

[hellenes]

What about this:


http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/

Hellenes

[solypsist]

winning battles means nothing when you lose the war. just wait and see. continue to just be contradictory.

/bookmarks this post and thread for review at year's end.

This is totally absurd. I really feel sorry for you, actually.

America is losing the campaign in Iraq?

Elections.

A constitution.

Iraqi Security forces taking over areas of responsibility.

The non-reported peaceful transfer of power when Sunnis gained a small number of seats in the Iraqi congress.

Saddam Hussein in jail and on trial.

Sunni insurgents actively fighting against "Al Qaida in Iraq".

Sunni Insurgents discussing the importance of political participation rather than violence.


America is losing the campaign in Iraq?

You are looking at the wrong information my friends.

[Tribesman]

You are looking at the wrong information my friends.
Where are you getting your information Divinus ?
Not from the Pentagon reports I assume since you keep mentioning Fallujah .
In case you hadn't noticed it now has more terrorist attacks than it did before the assault . This month alone 10% of coilition fatalities have been in fallujah (though it may be more as the last 3 locations havn't yet been released by the DOD and those that die in hospital are only listed with the hospital as the location) .

[Tachikaze]

It's a historical tragedy that mainstream Americans took so long to realize the mistake of Vietnam. Finally, after so much destruction had been done to Vietnam (families and towns destroyed, people burned to death, two entire generations living in horror) and the US (young soldiers maimed or killed, an entire society torn violently in two, the government lies and deception that led to disillusioned and disenfranchized citizens such as me), they slowly grasped the reality.

Well, my friends, it's happening again. Will it take eight years this time?

[Divinus Arma]

What about this:

What about it?


Addressing the rest of the dissent, It's sad to see such a lack of commitment. These things I mentioned have materialized. Bookmark it Soly. I'll be here next year and the year after.

This isn't vietnam. This is a completely different type of engagement. Sure you can find similarities, but parallel comparisons are absurd. The politics, strategy, intent of operation, and progress are completetly different. The way the war is fought is idfferent. Hell, everything is different! But modern war has its similarities like booby traps, hit and run tactics, and local forces with local agendas.

And Tribesman, what do you mean where am I getting my information? All of this is publicly available.

Our press corps wants to enage in political machinations once again. All the old anchors say that the news media has an obligation more so than simple reporting.

Quit putting your head in the sand and look at the big picture. Cut and run? We would amplify terrorism to the extreme. We can never meet these extremists in the middle. Look at the poor countries involved in this cartoon business. There will be always a reason for them to hate us. We must maintain our course and see it through. I know that is hard for you folks with the "instant gratification" cultural mindset and the others of you with personal hatred towards the west for its support of Israel.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Tachi'

Warfare is used as a means of advancing a political agenda when other means are insufficient.

Div is suggesting that signs of a nascent democracy in Iraq point toward success in establishing a functioning democratic state (other than Israel) in the region. Should that occur, most of the experts I've read suggest that this could engender change that would profoundly influence the region and begin to diminish the root causes and conditions that promote fundamentalist islamic terror groups.

Soly acknowledged that some of these were successes

winning battles means nothing when you lose the war.

though he quite obviously does not see them leading to the kind of successful conclusion I outlined above.

By contrast, you simply dismissed Div's points

You're using the wrong criteria. I would also call many of these conclusions naive.

without addressing their substance. Tribe did address them when he questioned Div's sources.

As to the Vietnam point, despite having grown up during the Vietnam era, I am not and never have been completely disillusioned with my own government. Significant components of our military advised against stepping into the Vietnam conflict, but the political "necessity" of opposing communism over-rode those objections. I wish we hadn't stepped into somebody else's colonial rebellion, but we did. Having done so, we then hamstrung our military by not letting them fight all out -- and they still won tactically (though public opinion and war weariness undercut that).

[Tribesman]

Tribesman, what do you mean where am I getting my information? All of this is publicly available.


Well you write this......
Yes, there are still a few trouble spots such as parts of Baghdad sometimes and al Ramadi but generally speaking, there just is no action.

This seems to be the consenus. Things are slowing down, winding down, wrapping up, whatever you want to call it.

Yet as attacks are increasing then how can it be slowing down , you mention Baghdad which still has the same amount of attacks as before , you say (in several threads) that fallujah is quiet , yet it has more attacks now than before the assault , you completely ignore that previously quiet areas , especially in the north , have had a big upsurge in attacks .
So how can an increase in attacks be described as "slowing down" or "winding down" .

edit to add ...Quit putting your head in the sand and look at the big picture.
The big picture looks even worse.
We would amplify terrorism to the extreme.
You are doing that already .
We must maintain our course and see it through.
It does help if you are on the right course in the first place .
I know that is hard for you folks with the "instant gratification" cultural mindset
Errrrr.... the instant gratification mindset were the idiots that did "invasion lite" and "nation unbuilding" without thinking and planning .

[solypsist]

Quit putting your head in the sand and look at the big picture.

This is totally absurd. I really feel sorry for you, actually. America is losing the campaign in Iraq?

because this is what "Last Throes" looks like, right?

Report: Iraqi insurgency more confident, coordinated
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/...cnn_topstories

meanwhile, let's look at how the American forces are doing:
http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwash...y/13889046.htm

and how the Iraqi people are doing since "Mission Accomplished"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3962969.stm

Wow - you know if I didn't know better...

[Just A Girl]

Judge not of others, Less ye shal be judged.