Thinking about joining the US army

[Duke Malcolm]

I'm getting a bit confused with this American system...
Do you have to join as a regular soldier before becoming an officer? Or can you just join as an officer?

[Redleg]

Redleg, if you can't see the hypocricy in your posts then it is not politically correct for me to insult you anymore.

In other words there is no hypocricy in the post. Tsk Tsk. It seems your a racist and your assuming others are to.

As for you... do you prefer NOT reading philosophy, or do you prefer reading philosophy written by live black men? I don't know what you are saying at all.

Heredatery ignorance always amuses me, even if I have to take some shots. Well done guys.

It seems your ignorance is far greater then Strikes.

[Redleg]

Do you have a special officer training school in the US, cos I'm sure that officer cadets in GB go through a sort of "Officer Skills Class" which teaches them how to be a proper officer. I get what you mean by saying Coming up through the ranks will give you more leadership experience, but (I dont know what it's like over there) that would be an Astronomical task for a British Soldier to do, is it the same way across the pond?

There are three service schools. West Point for the Army, Air Force Acdememy in CO, and Annoplis (SP) for the Navy with a Marine commission being an option there.

ROTC in most colleges, and several private schools that are structured toward the military - One of the better known is VMI (Virgina Military Institute)

Once commissioned the individual is sent to the Military School for his military occupation skill. For Instance I was a Field Artillery Officer. I went to the following military courses for additional training while in the Military.


As a LT
Field Artillery Basic Course - 19 Weeks
NBC Officer - 2 Weeks
Special Weapons - 1 Week

As a CPT
Field Artillery Officer Advance Course - 16 weeks
Muliple Rocket Cadre Course - 4 Weeks
Combined Arms Course - 8 weeks

As you progress in the Army - additional courses will be required.

[Redleg]

I'm getting a bit confused with this American system...
Do you have to join as a regular soldier before becoming an officer? Or can you just join as an officer?

You can do both.

If you have a college degree and enlist - one can apply for OCS

If you have an associates degree and enlist - one can apply for OCS, and once commissioned the officer will be given 2 years leave to finish his degree. I believe this program has been done away with though.

One can enlist, leave the military, go to college, get a degree, (while in school take ROTC) take a commission and return as an officer if selected for Active Duty. If not the individual has a Reserve Commission for the National Guard and Reserve System.

One can go to a military academy and get a commission.

One can go to college, join ROTC, recieve a commission upon graduation, and go into the military as an officer without ever having serve in the military prior to the commission.

THere are even other ways to become an officer. Direct commissions are sometimes offered to speciality skills when the military is criticaly short of the requirements in those areas. Usually these are medical officers.

[Lemur]

On a different note, don't forget that you will not have all of the freedoms you enjoy as a civilian. As an illustration, here are the 213 Things Skippy Can't Do in This Man's Army.

[Harald Den BlåToth]

What you guys do know about doctors? Can a resident in surgery with a H1 visa join the army?

[Proletariat]

What you guys do know about doctors? Can a resident in surgery with a H1 visa join the army?

Not sure about the particulars of the visa stuff, but with the schooling alone I'm fairly certain you could go in as a Captain, which isn't too shabby.

[KukriKhan]

There are also "Battlefield Commissions"
http://www.johnlmoore.com/battlefeild.htm
They used to be covered by AR 600-14, but that's an old memory, and probably inaccurate by now. I haven't heard of any being issued since 'Nam, except during war games.

I (as a Staff Sergeant, battlefield commissioned to Captain) once commanded a company for 3 days during a field exercise where we simulated losing our entire command group to a nerve-agent attack. Lot's o'Fun. No extra pay, though.

Military Doctors have their own separate set of acquisition, training & promotion rules. Proletariat can probably shed more light on that. Citizenship might be an issue - but I've been doctored by some guys with pretty thick European, Middle-Eastern, and Asian accents, so I'm guessing some provision must exist for non-citizen Doc's to join the US military.

[Mongoose]

All(well, almost all) of the above posts have been very helpfull, especially DA's. Thanks again.

I guess it would make the sense to try to get into WestPoint, and then enlist as an officer, right?

Well, I'm off to read up on this...

[KukriKhan]

For West Point (or the other academies), slip a fiver to your local congressman. http://www.factmonster.com/ipka/A0004608.html

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

You can do both.

If you have a college degree and enlist - one can apply for OCS

If you have an associates degree and enlist - one can apply for OCS, and once commissioned the officer will be given 2 years leave to finish his degree. I believe this program has been done away with though.

One can enlist, leave the military, go to college, get a degree, (while in school take ROTC) take a commission and return as an officer if selected for Active Duty. If not the individual has a Reserve Commission for the National Guard and Reserve System.

One can go to a military academy and get a commission.

One can go to college, join ROTC, recieve a commission upon graduation, and go into the military as an officer without ever having serve in the military prior to the commission.

THere are even other ways to become an officer. Direct commissions are sometimes offered to speciality skills when the military is criticaly short of the requirements in those areas. Usually these are medical officers.

Wow, thats really interesting, over hear (UK) you have to go to Sandhurst for a year to be an Army Officer. Even Regimental Sergant Majors have to.

[KukriKhan]

Old joke:

Two Second Lieutenants enter the mens room. Both do their 'business', one washes his hands, the other combs his hair. First guy:

"At West Point, they taught us to wash after using the batroom", he sniffed.

Other guy: "In OCS, they taught us to not pee on our hands."

There is some rivalry in the Army Officer Corps between West Pointers, ROTC's & OCSers. Statistically, West Pointers get promoted sooner, and advance higher (although GEN Tommy Franks was an OCSer, so it's not always true).

[Reenk Roink]

All(well, almost all) of the above posts have been very helpfull, especially DA's. Thanks again.

I guess it would make the sense to try to get into WestPoint, and then enlist as an officer, right?

Well, I'm off to read up on this...

Wait, how old are you Mongoose?

[Redleg]

All(well, almost all) of the above posts have been very helpfull, especially DA's. Thanks again.

I guess it would make the sense to try to get into WestPoint, and then enlist as an officer, right?

Well, I'm off to read up on this...

You don't enlist as an officer. Becoming an officer consists of several selection process depending upon which method you attempt.

For instance if you are selected to attend West Point. You get to sign a piece of paper that states you will give service to the nation as a commissioned officer for 8 years. The conditions to be set by the government. Often for West Pointers its 5 years active duty, 3 years in the Reserves.

But it isn't an enlistment contract per say. However make sure you read the fine print, failing West Point incurs a penalty where the individual must complete a period of enlistment time.

West Point graduates are always selected for Active Duty (for the most part) . I have heard of a few instances where selected individuals are only given a Reserve Commission, but the circumstances are usually unique. West Point Officers have a higher ability of getting the Army skill (branch) of their choice.

Same thing goes for ROTC scholarships. However the difference here is that there is a selection process not only for branch but for Active Duty or Reserve only. So if your wanting active duty its a little harder, all depending upon what is happening in the miltary when you go before the boards.

Its not that hard to get active duty with an ROTC commission but its not 100% guarnteed.

[Samurai Waki]

Another Military Joke

"A Army Man is hiding in a bunker with bullets wizzing past his head, he looks over to see his fallen comrade and mumbles "The Army Sucks".
Meanwhile a Marine is storming a beach, Machine Gun Firing All Around him, and he's crouched behind a tiny boulder and mumbles "The Marines Suck".
At the same time a Navy Ensign is working hard trying to keep his ship from sinking as it is continually shelled and he mumbles "The Navy Sucks".
At the End of the day an Airforce Pilot makes a safe landing, gets in his car, and drives to his hotel, when he turns on the tv he finds out that it doesn't have cable and he screams "WHAT NO CABLE! MAN THE AIRFORCE SUCKS!"

[Divinus Arma]

Well, if you would like to make the military a career, then I guess going through Anapolis or West Point is pretty much as good as it gets. You won't get the experience of being a troop, but I think that 4 years of military college makes up for that...


I'm sure you guys remember me tossing the ball around on taking a commission in the Corps. Maybe I'll still hit up the army for a reserve commission since the Corps doen't have such a thing untl after you do 6 years active as an officer...

Redleg, you went OCS?

[mercian billman]

Whether you decide to join the military or not just remember you may be doing something comepletely different from what you imagined you'll be doing. When I enlisted as a Marine Infantryman I thought I'd be in Iraq by now, instead I'm at Bangor, WA where I'll probably be for the next two years.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

The most important thing to remember is that in any branch of any service there is a chance of combat. So if you're not willing to risk your neck, and there is nothing wrong with that, then you need to think about whether doing this at all is a good idea.

[Mongoose]

You don't enlist as an officer. Becoming an officer consists of several selection process depending upon which method you attempt.

For instance if you are selected to attend West Point. You get to sign a piece of paper that states you will give service to the nation as a commissioned officer for 8 years. The conditions to be set by the government. Often for West Pointers its 5 years active duty, 3 years in the Reserves.

But it isn't an enlistment contract per say. However make sure you read the fine print, failing West Point incurs a penalty where the individual must complete a period of enlistment time.

West Point graduates are always selected for Active Duty (for the most part) . I have heard of a few instances where selected individuals are only given a Reserve Commission, but the circumstances are usually unique. West Point Officers have a higher ability of getting the Army skill (branch) of their choice.

Same thing goes for ROTC scholarships. However the difference here is that there is a selection process not only for branch but for Active Duty or Reserve only. So if your wanting active duty its a little harder, all depending upon what is happening in the miltary when you go before the boards.

Its not that hard to get active duty with an ROTC commission but its not 100% guarnteed.

So, succesfully graduating from a millatery academy is helpful, but not a gurrante that you will become an officer? How do the requirements in the Navy and AirForce vary from the Marines and the ArmedForces?

Is there any good source of information for the various paths in the army, so I can stop pestering people here?

USarmy.com wasn't very helpful.

edit: closer inspection reveals that US army .com does have the information I was looking for...

[Redleg]

Well, if you would like to make the military a career, then I guess going through Anapolis or West Point is pretty much as good as it gets. You won't get the experience of being a troop, but I think that 4 years of military college makes up for that...


I'm sure you guys remember me tossing the ball around on taking a commission in the Corps. Maybe I'll still hit up the army for a reserve commission since the Corps doen't have such a thing untl after you do 6 years active as an officer...

Redleg, you went OCS?

ROTC - after a stint in the National Guard as a 13E. 2 years as a 13E then I signed up for ROTC and entered the SMP program.

However I have served with about every type of officer that there is. Personally I think those that were enlisted for 2-4 years, get out to go to college and go thru ROTC are the better officers overall. So my line of thinking is not that far from yours in that regard. However I would say most of the OCS commissioned officers have a better relationship with the soldiers then others on the average.

[Kaiser of Arabia]

If you're bright enough, join the Navy as an officer and go for their nuke program. You could basically name your own salary after that.

Nuke program? Elaborate for Kaiser.

[Redleg]

So, succesfully graduating from a millatery academy is helpful, but not a gurrante that you will become an officer?

I might of mislead you there. Graduation form the service academy is a guarntee commissioned unless you fall within a unique catergory.

How do the requirements in the Navy and AirForce vary from the Marines and the ArmedForces?

Every service is different, just like several of the branches in the Army have different requirements. You have to know what you want, plan for it, and hope during the selection process you get exactly what you want. (This is for the Army, the other Branches might work the same way, but I don't think so.)

I applied for the Air Force Academy back when I was in High School, was the 4th in presedence for the appointment from the Senator's office, but the two above me got selected. And I went to a school that was known for getting indivduals into the service academies out of high school.

Is there any good source of information for the various paths in the army, so I can stop pestering people here?

Depends on what you want. What fields are you interested in. Most of the Military Schools have websights. I can help to steer you to the Post (Army Base) that might have that information. But I need to understand your general wants. Try the Personal Command webpage which whould be linked to the Army.com site.

edit: closer inspection reveals that US army .com does have the information I was looking for...

Good - try the links on the site also - it should steer you to the Officer portion of PERSCOM also.

[Redleg]

Nuke program? Elaborate for Kaiser.

A lot of the navy's ships use Nuclear Power for its main power generation. The training you get on them normally has a direct cross-over into civilian sector.

I knew a guy that went into the Navy's nuclear power program for just the reason Prol mentioned, however I lost track of him after I went into the Army. So I don't know if it was a successful transition or not.

Special Weapons is a different catergory, not much use in the civilian sector for that knowledge.

[Kaiser of Arabia]

A lot of the navy's ships use Nuclear Power for its main power generation. The training you get on them normally has a direct cross-over into civilian sector.

I knew a guy that went into the Navy's nuclear power program for just the reason Prol mentioned, however I lost track of him after I went into the Army. So I don't know if it was a successful transition or not.

Special Weapons is a different catergory, not much use in the civilian sector for that knowledge.

So just working with nuclear power?

I think I'll leave my ambitions on AF ROTC.

[Proletariat]

Special Weapons is a different catergory, not much use in the civilian sector for that knowledge.

For the nuke stuff I was thinking of, I don't think the private sector cares so much about what you were doing specifically. Just the fact that you got that sort of clearance and responsibility qualifies you for some incredibly decent jobs with salaries well past the $100k mark. Anyway, that's the impression I got from my friend's Mom who does head-hunting for high level corporate execs.

[Redleg]

For the nuke stuff I was thinking of, I don't think the private sector cares so much about what you were doing specifically. Just the fact that you got that sort of clearance and responsibility qualifies you for some incredibly decent jobs with salaries well past the $100k mark. Anyway, that's the impression I got from my friend's Mom who does head-hunting for high level corporate execs.

Its more then just the security clearance I think. I had a fairily decent one myself, because of Special Weapons. The responsiblities and training that goes along with being a Nuclear Power rated officer is beyond what just the security clearance will get you.

But yes the responsiblities and tasks that officer have to do, make for competive qualifications beyond the average civilian background.

[Mongoose]

I might of mislead you there. Graduation form the service academy is a guarntee commissioned unless you fall within a unique catergory

Alright. I think I undertstand now.

Every service is different, just like several of the branches in the Army have different requirements. You have to know what you want, plan for it, and hope during the selection process you get exactly what you want. (This is for the Army, the other Branches might work the same way, but I don't think so.)



I applied for the Air Force Academy back when I was in High School, was the 4th in presedence for the appointment from the Senator's office, but the two above me got selected. And I went to a school that was known for getting indivduals into the service academies out of high school.

I think I'll probably join the Navy or the Airforce, since thoses branches seem more relevant towards a non-millatary career afterwards.

I'd imagine that it would be harder then joining the Army though, since the they seem to be having a recruiting problem... or maybe I'm reading into "Americas Army" alittle too much.

Depends on what you want. What fields are you interested in. Most of the Military Schools have websights. I can help to steer you to the Post (Army Base) that might have that information. But I need to understand your general wants. Try the Personal Command webpage which whould be linked to the Army.com site.

I will, thank you. Also, I looked at Westpoint.com...I have another question, when you join West point or another millatary academy, do have to join the army, or can you join any specific branch? Are the acedmies for the Air
Force and the Navy different?

Good - try the links on the site also - it should steer you to the Officer portion of PERSCOM also.

I'll do that...

[Devastatin Dave]

Its more then just the security clearance I think.

That's where the money is. I should have used my education benifits when I was in (I've got my GI bill but haven't used it yet) so that's my advise to any that enlist or get commisioned. But I must say there is serious bank with the security clearance. The greatest thing about the military is simply the experience. You'll meet folks from all walks of life and will have a good time if you choose to do so. yes, there are some miserable people in the services but most will be your family and greatest friends you'll ever have.
The Air Force is the way to go. Yes I'm biased, but I think out of the services, the quality of life and the type of jobs within are just head and shoulders above all the others.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

How hard is it to get into airborne or "air assault"?

[Proletariat]

You can get Airborne in your contract before you ship. It's a pretty easy school, if you stay injury free. Alotta long, slow runs (5 milesish, iirc) and you have to do five jumps to graduate. I think it's only about two weeks long.

Air Assault is supposedly tougher and I'm not sure if you can get it in your contract. I guess you could get Fort Campbell in your contract for your first duty assignment and then it would be more or less gauranteed. I hear their physical training is a lot tougher than Airborne.