Crazy Workaround for Battlefield Fortifications

**oudysseos** · 02-22-2006, 10:39

As to why this particular bee's in my bonnet- I've been rereading Caesar's Gallic Wars and at the same time some popular layman's history books- Rubicon and In the Name of Rome, and it is clear to me that strategic and tactical forifications played a major role in Roman success- I'm thinking of Crassus against Spartacus, Pompey against Mithridates and Caesar numerous times, most famously against Vercingetorix. I think that it's fair to say that in the last example history would probably have gone very differently if it weren't for Roman engineering. (and not only the Romans- Alexander's siege of Tyre changed an island into a peninsula)

I understand that the basic game engine cannot be changed, and that the forts that we can add to the campaign map can conceptually represent systems of fortifications in the same way that spies represent systems of espionage and betrayal. I have no problem with that- after all, we are still meant to be able to use our imaginations a little.

But-

I have this idea for possibly adding battlefield palisades wherever one pleases. What I have thought up is adding a new unit, called pioneers or engineers (praefectus fabricam? there is a latin title for this) who would be represented in the recruitment queue by a little dude with some tools (or an apron, compass and hammer?), and with high recruitment and upkeep costs.
On the battlemap, this unit would be represented by a line of tall pointy sticks with no movement points, the same defense value as a city pallisade wall and maybe some extra hitpoints. No attack value. You would position your wall during the deployment phase and that'd be it. A small force of professional soldiers could hold off a barbarian horde behind their wall (or flank them around it) and we could be one step closer to accurately representing some important historical events.
Obviously this would have to be balanced out- battlefield walls were not indestructible, and the fact that this 'unit' could be attacked by other units is a bonus- curently armies cannot attack city walls (I mean pallisades) without rams or saps, when in reality a wooden fence could conceivably be pulled down by large sweaty men with axes.

So what I'm suggesting is that the pioneer units themselves are the wall, and that their battle map animation represent the work that they have done before the battle started.

Off the top of my head it seems that this might be a unit unique to post-Marian Rome, although the Macedonian/Hellenic factions should probably have a shot at it as well. Definitely should not be available until pretty far up the developement tree.

So, what do y'all think. Am I mad?

**Ano2** · 02-22-2006, 11:43

So hold on how far does this wall go? Also how would you create this model? And wouldnt it all collapse when it dies? Could the A.I. use it?

**Ludens** · 02-22-2006, 12:14

Well, it is an original solution to say the least. But there are some problems. First: will the A.I. use or respond to them properly? The answer to that is no. Two: is it possible to create an inpenatrable, immovable object on the battlefield with a unit? The answer may be yes, but I am not sure. The formation has to be very dense and the mass has to be extremily high. Three: if part of the wall is destroyed, the engineers will die. (Maybe you can do something here with hitpoints. IIRC high-hitpoint units stand a better chance of healing.) Four: Can you prevent the wall from attacking nearby enemies? I don't think so, and enemies near the wall will "stick" to the wall because they are under attack. Five: exactly what is its tactical use? You can blockade part of the battlemap, but this is not the same as a fortification. The enemy can just walk round it.

**Baldrick** · 02-22-2006, 13:55

and movement point refer to the campaign map and not the battle map so if you built something with no movement points you could never get it to the battle in the first place (I think).

**SwordsMaster** · 02-22-2006, 15:44

Well, you could represent tough, but destructable walls, by giving them a high armour value, making them vulnerable to siege artillery, and giving them a couple of dozen hitpoints. And setting their speed to 0. Technically.

Of course, the AI won't like it one bit, but unless someone actually tries it out, we can't ever be sure. I think the Pike&Musket mod includes something similar in the for of "war vagons". So there is a precendent.