We could just send AQ plane tickets and visas...

[Proletariat]

WASHINGTON: Members of Congress and the Bush administration are at odds over whether security is compromised by an Arab company’s takeover of operations at six major American seaports.

Some lawmakers expressed concern Sunday that the safeguards are insufficient to thwart infiltration of the vital facilities by terrorists.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...ow/1422050.cms

How can you possibly ensure against infiltration and corruption in this case? Anyone else think it's beyond belief that a company from a country with links to the 9/11 attacks is being trusted to pull security on six major US ports? Well, Chertoff thinks it's a good idea so it must be safe and sound.

[Proletariat]

Erm, go Hillary...?

WASHINGTON, Feb 17 (Reuters) - Two U.S. Democratic senators said on Friday they would introduce legislation aimed at blocking Dubai Ports World from buying a company that operates several U.S. shipping ports because of security concerns.

Robert Menendez of New Jersey and Hillary Clinton of New York said they would offer a measure to ban companies owned or controlled by foreign governments from acquiring U.S. port operations.

http://today.reuters.com/investing/f...57_N17277829:1

[GoreBag]

Just post armed guards at every port and beat the hell out of every Arab who shows up there. Problem solved.

[Papewaio]

Since when was the UAE involved in 911?

Talk about blanket blame. "All Arabs and all Arab companies are now personally involved in terrorism and the only terrorists are Arabs."

So remake the consitution: All are equal regardless or race, creed or religion except Arabs.

Personally I think this is an attempt to stop free trade by using racist tactics.

You guys should hang your heads in shame.

[Proletariat]

Two of the 19 9/11 hijackers were citizens of Dubai, the Arab emirate whose bid to run ports in New York, New Jersey and four other cities was okayed by the White House even though investigators have found signs that money used to finance terrorism flowed through Dubai banks.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/loca...p-333284c.html

[Papewaio]

Yes 2 men = the entire country must be raving terrorists.

[Proletariat]

Since when was the UAE involved in 911?

Talk about blanket blame. "All Arabs and all Arab companies are now personally involved in terrorism and the only terrorists are Arabs."

Since all members of Al Quaeda have Arabic backgrounds, I don't see how this can be written off so quickly as blanket blame.

Personally I think this is an attempt to stop free trade by using racist tactics.

Just a gut feeling or can you back this up at all?

[Don Corleone]

Since when was the UAE involved in 911?

Uhm, Pape, you're usually much better than this. Even if you didn't know, you could have done a simple Google search and seen that Marwan al-Shehhi, the pilot of the 2nd plane, was a UAE national (and veteran for that matter).

Personally I think this is an attempt to stop free trade by using racist tactics.

You guys should hang your heads in shame.

Based on the amount of money that has flowed into terrorist groups from the UAE, as well as Saudi Arabia, it's hard to justify allowing such a secure role going to them. Then again, our ports aren't very secure (ABC news has shipped depleted Uranium from overseas into Oakland harbor twice).

Pape, surely you can understand a certain amount of apprehension here, based on the history and the connections. That being said, does anyone really believe that having the Blind Sheikh himself running our port facilities could make them any less secure? Is such a thing possible?

[solypsist]

It could be a cruel joke to give the US people the idea that now the ports are under attack. Approve a policy, let the media, and especially FOX, talk about the dangers and the chance of increased terrorism, reap the rewards of a more fearful society. Just throwing it out there.

[Don Corleone]

I find this whole newsstory odd and strange on many levels.

Not many issues have Mike Savage of the Savage Nation (one very, very scary talk-radio individual) coming out and singing Charles Schummer's praises, and taking Bush to task in the same breath.

Talk about strange bedfellows...

[Xiahou]

Well, I think this is all rather stupid. Security at our ports is and will continue to be controlled by the coast guard. This is a huge international company that operates ports all over the world- not some fly-by-night AlQaeda front group. These ports were already operated by a foreign company, and they will still be afterwards- staffed by the same American unionized longshoremen.

So what am I missing? Where's the problem?

[Leet Eriksson]

Woot finally, some UAE criticism.

Now look kids:

Uhm, Pape, you're usually much better than this. Even if you didn't know, you could have done a simple Google search and seen that Marwan al-Shehhi, the pilot of the 2nd plane, was a UAE national (and veteran for that matter).

You know, i know the Shehi family personally, back in 85 some UAE nationals went to afghanistan, among them is this marwan fellow.

The shehi's are not really arab, but from the shuhooh minority group, a very, very conservative group. But still marwan was a fringe element, not even respresentative of his own family.

Based on the amount of money that has flowed into terrorist groups from the UAE, as well as Saudi Arabia, it's hard to justify allowing such a secure role going to them. Then again, our ports aren't very secure (ABC news has shipped depleted Uranium from overseas into Oakland harbor twice).

We froze al qaeda accounts as soon as it was revealed it was them who did 9/11.

Just a gut feeling or can you back this up at all?

No need to back it up, the US has its fair amount of douches you know, becuase seriously why would there be an article talking about an Arabic company buying US companies on US territory in the first place?

In the UAE we have US companies on arab territory, buying arab companies. But i don't see anyone complaining.

[Don Corleone]

The shehi's are not really arab, but from the shuhooh minority group, a very, very conservative group. But still marwan was a fringe element, not even respresentative of his own family.

As far as I know, the complaint is about a UAE company, not Arabs in general. Regardless of the man's ethnicity, he represents your country and is indicative of a fairly strong anti-US slant, some deserved, some not so deserved. I don't think anybody's talking about a majority of people, but would it really take a majority of the UAE's citizens to wreak some serious havok?

We froze al qaeda accounts as soon as it was revealed it was them who did 9/11.

So, you continued to allow Al-Queda to use your financial institutions to funnel money around the globe after the African embassy bombings, the bombing of the Kobai (spell?) towers and the bombing of the USS Cole, all of which were known to have been perpetrated by Al-Queda. Uhm, you're not helping yourself here Faisal....

[Kaiser of Arabia]

Yes 2 men = the entire country must be raving terrorists.

UAE only has like 10 people.

[Papewaio]

Since all members of Al Quaeda have Arabic backgrounds, I don't see how this can be written off so quickly as blanket blame.

So what if all the members of Al Quaeda are Arabic. All the IRA are Irish.

Does that make all Irish terrorists? When did you last see Americans banning Irish companies from investing in USA?

Just a gut feeling or can you back this up at all?

USA has some very strange ideas when it comes to free trade. For foreign companies that have raw products (agriculture or mining) to get their products sold in the USA it is often easiest acheived by buying USA companies that use the raw goods. Blocks to foreign investment or trade can be found in many of the areas that USA does not compete very well in.

USA's actions when it comes to free trade are no where near the hype. In this case it is using unsavoury tactics for protectionist activities.

Uhm, Pape, you're usually much better than this. Even if you didn't know, you could have done a simple Google search and seen that Marwan al-Shehhi, the pilot of the 2nd plane, was a UAE national (and veteran for that matter).

So what? That does not mean the entire nation of UAE is in on the plot anymore then Timothy McVeighs actions meant that Olkaholma was in on the plot.

Mind you using this logic maybe the prisoner abuse in the USA military should be used to sum up the entire USA military. Do you really want to say that the entire USA military was behind the abuse of prisoners or that it was a systemic failure in a section of the military?

Does Clinton taking advantage of the intern make all married males scumbags who lie and cheat on their wives?

[Proletariat]

So what if all the members of Al Quaeda are Arabic. All the IRA are Irish.

Does that make all Irish terrorists? When did you last see Americans banning Irish companies from investing in USA?

Would you hire an Irish company to pull security on Manchester's shopping centers?

USA has some very strange ideas when it comes to free trade. For foreign companies that have raw products (agriculture or mining) to get their products sold in the USA it is often easiest acheived by buying USA companies that use the raw goods. Blocks to foreign investment or trade can be found in many of the areas that USA does not compete very well in.

Thanks for the explanation. I don't buy it, but I can see at least what you're saying. A country with a history of links to terrorism wants a contract to run port operations in the US. William of Occam's head is spinning.

[Don Corleone]

So what? That does not mean the entire nation of UAE is in on the plot anymore then Timothy McVeighs actions meant that Olkaholma was in on the plot.

Mind you using this logic maybe the prisoner abuse in the USA military should be used to sum up the entire USA military. Do you really want to say that the entire USA military was behind the abuse of prisoners or that it was a systemic failure in a section of the military?

Does Clinton taking advantage of the intern make all married males scumbags who lie and cheat on their wives?

Actually, I'd argue that Timothy McVeigh did make all single white male veterans with conservative political leanings suspect. Hell, Republicans in general were grouped together as one Hertz rental away from their own Oklahoma city bombing. At one point, Reno proposed a ban on the use of Nitrogen based fertilizers and said this was why we couldn't trust people to personal firearms ownership.

Frankly, I've seen Tachi, Idaho and not a few others make broad sweeping generalizations about the American military, based on the photos coming out of Abu Grahib (sp? dammit)

Look, it may not be right, and in an ideal society, maybe even a former madras leader from Pakistan would be put in charge of the Nuclear Regulatory Agency. But the fact is, people do tend to generalize. In some ways, this is helpful. It may be inaccurate in the particular, but in the general, trend analysis points you in the right direction.

Finally, like I said earlier, you're barking up the wrong tree with me on this one. We could put Zarqawi in charge of INS and we'd probably see a decrease in the numbers of illegals flowing into this country. Before we go giving grief to some UAE shipping & port facilities company, we ought to be mending some pretty gaping holes in our fences here at home.

[Xiahou]

USA's actions when it comes to free trade are no where near the hype. In this case it is using unsavoury tactics for protectionist activities.

I think you're missing the mark there- the ports are already operated by a foreign company, so I don't see where protectionism comes in.

One theory I have is that Democrats started this issue to attempt to show their 'tough on security' creds. And afraid of being outdone, Republican lawmakers are rushing to sign onto it.

But who knows? This really does seem to be a trumped up story though.

[GoreBag]

William of Occam's head is spinning.

He was into simplicity, not reductionism.

[Leet Eriksson]

As far as I know, the complaint is about a UAE company, not Arabs in general. Regardless of the man's ethnicity, he represents your country and is indicative of a fairly strong anti-US slant, some deserved, some not so deserved. I don't think anybody's talking about a majority of people, but would it really take a majority of the UAE's citizens to wreak some serious havok?

Jeez, will you read why he hates the US?

The US basically told the arabs to go to afghanistan, I don't need to remind you who was praising the mujahideen 24/7. Maybe Marwan having close ties with al qaeda has something to do with it.

Nah, the UAE people hate the US.. yeah totally, becuase this one guy blew himself up.

So, you continued to allow Al-Queda to use your financial institutions to funnel money around the globe after the African embassy bombings, the bombing of the Kobai (spell?) towers and the bombing of the USS Cole, all of which were known to have been perpetrated by Al-Queda. Uhm, you're not helping yourself here Faisal....

you know accounts don't have "THIS IS AL QAEDA (tm) BANK ACCOUNT" plastered all over them, it takes time to find links, names and people involved.

And its not one universal bank account, and by the by, the US didn't freeze them before 9/11 i hear. Rather didn't announce freezing them, you know, like using the media, to spice up US relations and keep a decent image.

[Papewaio]

Look, it may not be right, and in an ideal society, maybe even a former madras leader from Pakistan would be put in charge of the Nuclear Regulatory Agency. But the fact is, people do tend to generalize. In some ways, this is helpful. It may be inaccurate in the particular, but in the general, trend analysis points you in the right direction.

I am not against ruling out individuals who have done wrong. I am against blanket blame on groups because of the actions of individuals. To say that all UAE citizens and companies are terrorists because of the actions of a few is wrong. To ban Osama Bin Laden from buying the ports would be the sane and just thing to do.

BTW the head of the IAEA is Egyptian...

[Proletariat]

He was into simplicity, not reductionism.

Right. So if I was trying to reduce the issue into tiny pieces for an easier explanation, your comment would make sense. Pape is leaning towards this being motivated by protectionism when the terrorism concern (hysteria, if you please) is already obvious.

[Don Corleone]

I am not against ruling out individuals who have done wrong. I am against blanket blame on groups because of the actions of individuals. To say that all UAE citizens and companies are terrorists because of the actions of a few is wrong. To ban Osama Bin Laden from buying the ports would be the sane and just thing to do.

BTW the head of the IAEA is Egyptian...

Well, if you have the time to dig and research the personal history, views and actions of each and every individual you meet or hear about in the press, your work and home life keep you far less busy than mine keep me.

We all stereotype. Conservative Texas lawmaker, long history of business dealings with the oil industry. Has ties to conservative religious groups and has announced on more than one public occassion that he feels that God has a special plan for America. Who am I talking about, George W Bush? A Republican for sure, right? Nope. Lloyd Bentson.

I don't have it in for Arabs and I don't have it in for the UAE. One more time, read what I wrote. I said I could understand, for reasons other than racist greed which you immediately jumped to. I also said I couldn't see how they, or anyone, could do much worse of a job than is currently going on.

But let's not kid ourselves here. There is a large portion of the Middle East that hates America and would happily do us harm, and they've worked themselves into such a tizzy about it, they've convinced themselves that killing Americans is a good thing. Some of their anger is justifiable, some stems from jealousy and envy. It may be just a minority, as we frequently hear, but it's not like you can tell who's capable of violence and who can't before they act.

[GoreBag]

Right. So if I was trying to reduce the issue into tiny pieces for an easier explanation, your comment would make sense. Pape is leaning towards this being motivated by protectionism when the terrorism concern (hysteria, if you please) is already obvious.

Even though you're skirting the issue and only indirectly presenting your opinion, it would seem that you're equating UAE citizens and companies with terrorism. "Don't let them buy our ports because we'll get bombed" is a reductionist statement. Pape is just cutting the reduction halfway through and jabbing you for the inherent racism in the logic.

[Tribesman]

Would you hire an Irish company to pull security on Manchester's shopping centers?
Isn't that shopping centre that was bombed now owned by an Irish businessman ?

[Don Corleone]

Even though you're skirting the issue and only indirectly presenting your opinion, it would seem that you're equating UAE citizens and companies with terrorism. "Don't let them buy our ports because we'll get bombed" is a reductionist statement. Pape is just cutting the reduction halfway through and jabbing you for the inherent racism in the logic.

Oh yeah, absolutely. Anyone who has the collasal gall to assume there are those in the Middle East who wish to do Westerners harm must be racist. Yeah, who's being guilty of reductionist thinking...

[Proletariat]

Even though you're skirting the issue and only indirectly presenting your opinion, it would seem that you're equating UAE citizens and companies with terrorism. "Don't let them buy our ports because we'll get bombed" is a reductionist statement. Pape is just cutting the reduction halfway through and jabbing you for the inherent racism in the logic.

No, you and he are both jumping to conclusions if you think my position is racist. Do you think Hillary Clinton or Chuck Schumer are racists?

I'm beginning to wonder if it is such a big deal, like Xiahou asked. I also agree wholeheartedly with Don that there certainly are bigger fish to fry when it comes to our security. But to just jump to the racism/greed motive is as stupid as me accusing you and Pape of hoping for more attacks on the US.

Now, up above you say I'm equating UAE citizens and companies with terrorism. Of course I've said nothing of the sort, but it doesn't matter anyway. Whether all UAE citizens are terrorists or not, the fact that two members of the 9/11 attacks and funds to AQ have come from or gone through the UAE should be enough to give pause to this whole deal.

Sorry for the over the top title, but don't throw this racism crap at me.

[GoreBag]

Oh yeah, absolutely. Anyone who has the collasal gall to assume there are those in the Middle East who wish to do Westerners harm must be racist. Yeah, who's being guilty of reductionist thinking...

Colossal.

Saying that allowing a company based in the UAE to purchase US ports is equivalent to offering plane tickets and citizenship to terrorists is reductionism. To say that there is no racism in the statement is moronic. Admit it. Yeah, there are plenty of people everywhere 'who wish to do the Westerners harm', but it's not like the US is willing to tuck itself into an international fetal position to protect itself from potential 'harm'.

Prole: Why don't you just come out and offer your opinion, complete and without sarcasm, instead of offering up such clever quips as "give the AQ visas!" and "if so-and-so thinks it's a good idea, it MUST be good for Amurrica!"?

[Don Corleone]

Colossal.

Thanks. Me vewy stupood and me glad you heer to make me smart.

Discussion over. If your best lead is attacking a silly spelling mistake, you're not somebody I care to treat seriously.

[GoreBag]

Thanks. Me vewy stupood and me glad you heer to make me smart.

Discussion over. If your best lead is attacking a silly spelling mistake, you're not somebody I care to treat seriously.

I seem to remember you saying that before, actually. And to think I'd been forgiven.

How are those prayers going, anyway?