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Thread: Golden Dome no More

  1. #1
    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
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    Default Golden Dome no More

    SAMARRA: A dawn bomb attack wrecked a famous Shiite Muslim shrine in Samarra, 100 kilometres north of Baghdad, sparking street protests and forcing a government appeal to avert sectarian reprisals.

    Gunmen yesterday burst into the Golden Mosque, one of the holiest Shiite sites in Iraq, and planted explosives that destroyed its 100-year-old, gold-covered dome, one of the biggest and best known in the Muslim world, officials said. An Interior Ministry spokesman said the attackers wore police uniforms, tied up the guards and set the charges.
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    Member Senior Member Proletariat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Golden Dome no More



    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Pretty sad. More actions placing objects above human life.


    BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Gunmen targeted 27 Baghdad mosques and killed three Sunni imams Wednesday in the wake of a bomb attack at one of the holiest Shiite sites.
    http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/me.../22/iraq.main/

  3. #3
    Pining for the glory days... Member lancelot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Golden Dome no More

    So now muslims are killing muslims...

    One of the many benefits of such an enlightened, peaceful religion...

    I do find it quite interesting that other religions dont seem to use bombs and violence as much as Islamists seems to....media coverage I wonder? or accurate assesment?
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    Default Re: Golden Dome no More

    Accurate to a small minorety. There are such (christain) people in Chechnia.
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    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Golden Dome no More

    I think some people down there like civil wars and the struggle for power...


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    Default Re: Golden Dome no More

    Quote Originally Posted by lancelot
    So now muslims are killing muslims...

    One of the many benefits of such an enlightened, peaceful religion...

    I do find it quite interesting that other religions dont seem to use bombs and violence as much as Islamists seems to....media coverage I wonder? or accurate assesment?

    Muslims have been killing muslims over matters of religion for centuries. I'm only happy that christians have -- mostly -- gotten over that habit.

    As to the loss of this Mosque,

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    Jillian & Allison's Daddy Senior Member Don Corleone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Golden Dome no More

    Well, here's what I don't get. I wouldn't blow up a synagogue or a buddhist temple, let alone a Greek Orthodox chuch (which I think is closer to the differences between Sunni & Shiite muslims). What a shame. Isn't there a respect for the house of Allah in Islam that would have stopped these monsters, even if u don't agree with the uys that built it?
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    Oni Member Samurai Waki's Avatar
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    Default Re: Golden Dome no More

    It just proves whether we try to stabilize Iraq or not, theres still going to be hurt feelings, or a civil war... we can't hope to solve 1350 years of hatred and division in a matter of years.

  9. #9
    RIP Tosa, my trolling end now Senior Member Devastatin Dave's Avatar
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    Default Re: Golden Dome no More

    I have to wonder though whether the explosion came mainly from the attack or from the probable weapons cache stored inside this Holy/ammo place.
    RIP Tosa

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    RIP Tosa, my trolling end now Senior Member Devastatin Dave's Avatar
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    Default Re: Golden Dome no More

    On a side note, what a great answer to prayer (or wishful thinking considering from who this is based) for the Left. Looks like they'll finally get that civil war they've been hoping for!!! Let me be the first to congratulate you.
    http://news.yahoo.com/fc/world/iraq
    I can almost see Jimmy Carter, Kofi Annan, and Chirac in an entangled threesome celebrating and girating in errotic joy and happiness.
    RIP Tosa

  11. #11
    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: Golden Dome no More

    The only person I hear yelling "Yeee-hah" is you, DevDave, as you try to numb yourself to the horror with happy visions of traitorous liberals. But I tell you what, a tragedy like this is best taken straight up, with no partisan chaser.

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    The very model of a modern Moderator Xiahou's Avatar
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    Default Re: Golden Dome no More

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Corleone
    Well, here's what I don't get. I wouldn't blow up a synagogue or a buddhist temple, let alone a Greek Orthodox chuch (which I think is closer to the differences between Sunni & Shiite muslims). What a shame. Isn't there a respect for the house of Allah in Islam that would have stopped these monsters, even if u don't agree with the uys that built it?
    I really dont think this bombing was a shiite vs sunni 'thing'. I tend to think that it was more about terrorists trying to create chaos and ratchet up the tensions between sunnis and shiites. I'd suggest that it shows how desperate they are, that the only plan they have left is to try to spark a civil war. Hopefully, cooler heads will win out and they can see these attacks for what they are.

    Regardless, it's a tragedy to see such a religous monument destroyed.
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  13. #13
    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: Golden Dome no More

    Quote Originally Posted by Xiahou
    I'd suggest that it shows how desperate they are, that the only plan they have left is to try to spark a civil war.
    Yeah, it seems pretty obvious that somebody thinks a civil war will be to their benefit. Curious to see if we'll find out who that is, exactly. AQ in Iraq would be the obvious answer, but I wouldn't put it past some radical Baathists to say, "Hey, we'll win, so let's start something." I really, really hope the authorities track down everyone involved in this outrage, squeeze them for every drop of info, and hand them over to the mob.

    I don't normally want to see folks ripped limb from limb, but when people start blowing up holy sites, my perspective shifts a little ...

    [edit]

    Looks like some people on the ground believe we've already reached the tipping point. I hope they're wrong.

    three Sunni clerics were among six killed at dozens of Sunni mosques attacked, police said; in the bloodiest apparent reprisal, gunmen in police uniforms took 11 Sunni rebel suspects from a jail and killed them in the mainly Shi'ite city of Basra.

    Sectarian clashes hit a number of cities. In Baghdad, people rushed home before dark, some stocking up on food.

    Iraqi President Jalal Talabani, a Kurd, accused the bombers, who also dressed as policemen, of trying to derail talks on a national unity coalition. "We must ... work together against ... the danger of civil war," he told Iraqis in a televised address.
    Last edited by Lemur; 02-23-2006 at 05:56.

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    Member Senior Member Proletariat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Golden Dome no More

    Why does everyone think there must be some puppet master in order for a civil war here? Does no one really think that the Shiites and Sunnis are capable of starting a civil war with each other without being manipulated by AQ? It seems like a regression to a more natural state for these groups.

    Can anyone tell me what the rifts between the two sects are over? Is it geopolitical or strictly religious? I'm thinking of course it's a good amount of both, but it would make sense wrt to Don's question that the latter was the biggest part of it.

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    The very model of a modern Moderator Xiahou's Avatar
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    Default Re: Golden Dome no More

    Quote Originally Posted by Proletariat
    Why does everyone think there must be some puppet master in order for a civil war here? Does no one really think that the Shiites and Sunnis are capable of starting a civil war with each other without being manipulated by AQ? It seems like a regression to a more natural state for these groups.

    Can anyone tell me what the rifts between the two sects are over? Is it geopolitical or strictly religious? I'm thinking of course it's a good amount of both, but it would make sense wrt to Don's question that the latter was the biggest part of it.
    Well, my uninformed opinion (and polls) would suggest that the majority of Iraqis want a unified country. Now obviously, there are some raw nerves as Sunnis, who were running things before now have a minority role and Shiites obviously, who were slaughtered wholesale by a Sunni dictator. But, it's very hard for me to believe that an attack like this would be perpetrated by anyone other than a terrorist thug. Anyone of any sort of real faith at all wouldn't destroy such a sacred place- hell, even Saddam didnt do it and he certainly had no love of Shiites.

    I still say this is an act of desperation by AQ or some such group. Mind you, just because an act is desperate doesnt mean it cant succeed- but I do think it's a bit of desperation.
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    L'Etranger Senior Member Banquo's Ghost's Avatar
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    Default Re: Golden Dome no More

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh
    Muslims have been killing muslims over matters of religion for centuries. I'm only happy that christians have -- mostly -- gotten over that habit.
    I only wish this were true. The north of my own country, Ireland, has been riven by sectarian civil war based on pseudo-religious excuses for more than thirty years - and on real religious greviances for a lot longer in the whole of the island. Bombing defenceless children was a hallmark of both Protestant and Catholic forces.

    Religion can bring out the very worst as well as the very best. In the Yugoslavian civil war (the recollection of which should sober up anyone who thinks civil wars are exclusive to Muslim Arabs) there were many incidences of religious atrocities. The Croatians, by and large, are Catholic. The Serbs, Orthodox. Each Christian religion crosses themselves slighly differently - Catholics left shoulder to right, Orthodox right to left.

    Both armies used to make the people of newly taken villages, mixed for hundreds of years, and put a gun to the terrified people's heads, telling them were to die. If they crossed themselves in the wrong way, they were shot.

    This was in Europe, in the 1990's. Religion is used by all manner of evil men to further their ends. Both Islam and Christianity are at heart, doctrines of gentle peace. Rarely have the followers of each caused the founders anything but tears.
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    RIP Tosa, my trolling end now Senior Member Devastatin Dave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemur
    The only person I hear yelling "Yeee-hah" is you, DevDave, as you try to numb yourself to the horror with happy visions of traitorous liberals. But I tell you what, a tragedy like this is best taken straight up, with no partisan chaser.
    I'd like to have the same thought as you but it would seem the AP has already declared this the start of a civil war. I didn't realise that the AP had that sort of knowledge to already come to this conclusion. Seems like that had this headline ready to get the juices flowing for those wanting their prediction to come true. Its not like the AP is some bastion of the rightwing media i dare say. So I stand by my statement.
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    MTR: AOA project ###### (temp) Member kataphraktoi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Golden Dome no More

    Difference in Christian conflicts is that the national identity makes religion tied to conflict, not religion tying national identity to conflict. Those wars are more about national identity and territory. If God is referenced, it is subjected to the cause of nationalism, not for any religious sanction.

    As for the Sunni-Shia thing, meh...I'll let others comment on it.
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    Default Re: Golden Dome no More

    Quote Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave
    On a side note, what a great answer to prayer (or wishful thinking considering from who this is based) for the Left. Looks like they'll finally get that civil war they've been hoping for!!! Let me be the first to congratulate you.
    http://news.yahoo.com/fc/world/iraq
    I can almost see Jimmy Carter, Kofi Annan, and Chirac in an entangled threesome celebrating and girating in errotic joy and happiness.
    I have heard some people celebrate death and destroying:
    https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=61564

    To be right about fear and warning is not a big happiness for some one with concern for well being of people and humanity, I am thinking. Only for people with messed up values.

  20. #20

    Default The Situation in Iraq Gets Worse

    After the bombing of a mosque in Iraq, tensions between Iraqi groups are getting more dangerous. If the U.S. leaves now, then there will certainly be a civil war in Iraq. The U.S. started Iraq's regime change; therefore, the Americans have a responsibility to finish the job. Unfortunately, being the one who led the war, and being the one with the most influence over the Iraq, the U.S. will get much of the blame. It will be a difficult road whether the Americans leave Iraq or not.

    I'm worried about how a civil war in Iraq will affect the Middle East.
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    A very, very Senior Member Adrian II's Avatar
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    Default Re: Golden Dome no More

    Quote Originally Posted by Xiahou
    Well, my uninformed opinion (and polls) would suggest that the majority of Iraqis want a unified country.
    My informed opinion tells me they voted exclusively along ethnic lines in December and are deeply devided over what sort of country they want. It is something we have know all along, and a civil war in Iraq has been going on for some time. This is merely a serious escalation, not the start of hostilities. For Pete's sake, is it so hard to understand that a thousand sectarian killings a month amounts to civil war? As for the dome, it is not at all clear that the attack was religiously motivated. There are so many militias and death squads operating in Iraq. Security, intelligence and counter-insurgency in Iraq are a joke and it may be a month, a year, even twenty-five years before we know who was behind this provocation.
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    A very, very Senior Member Adrian II's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Situation in Iraq Gets Worse

    Papewaio already opened a thread on this.
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    Master of useless knowledge Senior Member Kitten Shooting Champion, Eskiv Champion Ironside's Avatar
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    Default Re: Golden Dome no More

    Quote Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave
    On a side note, what a great answer to prayer (or wishful thinking considering from who this is based) for the Left. Looks like they'll finally get that civil war they've been hoping for!!! Let me be the first to congratulate you.
    http://news.yahoo.com/fc/world/iraq
    I can almost see Jimmy Carter, Kofi Annan, and Chirac in an entangled threesome celebrating and girating in errotic joy and happiness.
    There's a slight difference between predicting something and hope that you're wrong and celebrating that you were right.
    We are all aware that the senses can be deceived, the eyes fooled. But how can we be sure our senses are not being deceived at any particular time, or even all the time? Might I just be a brain in a tank somewhere, tricked all my life into believing in the events of this world by some insane computer? And does my life gain or lose meaning based on my reaction to such solipsism?

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    Probably Drunk Member Reverend Joe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Golden Dome no More

    Quote Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave
    I'd like to have the same thought as you but it would seem the AP has already declared this the start of a civil war. I didn't realise that the AP had that sort of knowledge to already come to this conclusion. Seems like that had this headline ready to get the juices flowing for those wanting their prediction to come true. Its not like the AP is some bastion of the rightwing media i dare say. So I stand by my statement.
    I could... but it would just be too easy. So go ahead, Dave- keep your head packed real tight down in the sand.

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    Voluntary Suspension Voluntary Suspension Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Golden Dome no More

    You know what?

    FUBAR, pull out.

    I am totally fed up with this, at the start of the coalition occupation Brits were wearing berets out on patrol, uncapping water pipes and being freindly with the locals, now those same people are killing them

    Time to go home.
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    Dux Nova Scotia Member lars573's Avatar
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    Default Re: Golden Dome no More

    Quote Originally Posted by Proletariat
    Can anyone tell me what the rifts between the two sects are over? Is it geopolitical or strictly religious? I'm thinking of course it's a good amount of both, but it would make sense wrt to Don's question that the latter was the biggest part of it.
    Shittes beleive that Ali, one of Mohammeds sons-in-law and third Caliph, was the last true Caliph. Sunnis believe that all Caliphs until the Mongol invasions (or there abouts) were true. Sunni's are about 2/3 of the whole Muslim population globally. Each group also beleives that the other are infedels and not true Muslims.
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    Member Member Kanamori's Avatar
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    Default Re: Golden Dome no More

    Oy vey. What a freaking disaster.

  28. #28
    Senior Member Senior Member Reenk Roink's Avatar
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    Default Re: Golden Dome no More

    I always heard that Sunni and Shi'ites were not excommunicating each other as infidels like the Catholic/Orthodox split. I remember seeing (and later writing) in the "Heretic sects" thread in the Monestary that Sunni and Shi'ites generally do not consider the other "heretic" or "apostate" but rather "deviant."

    I know that Sunnis believe that Abu Bakr, Omar, and Uthman were the first 3 caliphs, and that Ali was the fourth, and that these 4 were "rightly guided," while Shi'ites believe that Ali was the legitimate successor appointed by Muhammed and the other 3 were false caliphs.

    Later, as the Shi'ite doctrine evolved, they belived that their imans who descended from Ali were unfalliable, while Sunnis believe that no caliph, cleric, or person, is unfalliable except the prophets.

    Now, some Shi'ite splinter groups like Ismailis, or others who believe that Ali is God, or Ali is greater than Jesus, are considered infidels by both Sunnis and Shi'ites, but they are marginal.

    Maybe LEN or fiz can clarify...
    Last edited by Reenk Roink; 02-23-2006 at 18:03.

  29. #29
    Mad Professor Senior Member Hurin_Rules's Avatar
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    Default Re: Golden Dome no More

    Looks like the civil war has officially begun.

    Over 100 dead today, and tomorrow, being Friday prayers, will most likely be far worse.

    But hey, I'm sure all the violence will be over soon. Cheney assured us that the insurgency was 'in its last throes', right?
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  30. #30
    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: Golden Dome no More

    BBC update today, doesn't look so good:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Scores die amid Iraqi shrine fury
    More than 100 people have been killed in Iraq in apparent revenge attacks after the bombing of a key Shia shrine.

    Scores of bullet-riddled bodies have been found in Baghdad, while in the bloodiest attack 47 factory workers were killed near the capital.

    President Jalal Talabani called an emergency summit of Iraq's political leaders to discuss the violence.

    Sunni Arab politicians boycotted the meeting and pulled out of coalition talks in protest at reprisal attacks.

    "We are suspending our participation in negotiations on the government with the Shia Alliance," said Tareq al-Hashimi, a top official from the Iraqi Accord Front, Iraq's main Sunni Arab alliance.

    Dozens of Sunni mosques have been targeted and several burnt to the ground since bombers blew up the golden dome of the revered al-Askari shrine in Samarra on Wednesday morning, reports say.

    In a rare public rebuke, the main Sunni religious authority - the Association of Muslim Scholars - accused Iraq's top Shia cleric, Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, of fomenting the violence.

    Ayatollah Sistani has urged Shias not to attack Sunni mosques, but a spokesman for the cleric said anger might be hard to contain.

    "You wouldn't expect an abrupt or sudden calm, because there are some people whose reaction you can't control," London-based Fadel Bahar al-Eloum told the BBC.

    In other developments:
    • US President George W Bush calls the bombing of the shrine an "evil act" and appeals for an end to reprisal attacks
    • Tens of thousands of Lebanese Shia Muslims rally in Beirut in protest at the shrine attack
    • An angry crowd prevents Iraqi Housing Minister Jassem Mohammed's convoy from reaching the bombed shrine in Samarra
    • The Iraqi government cancels all police and army leave and extends the curfew in Baghdad.

    'No-one safe'

    As violence showed no sign of abating, Iraq's leaders have increasingly warned of the dangers of a civil war.

    After meeting Shias, Kurds and leaders of a smaller Sunni group, President Talabani said in a televised broadcast if all-out war came "no-one would be safe", Reuters news agency reported.

    The attack on the al-Askari shrine - which will be seen as a direct assault on the identity and rights of an entire community - takes the danger of a civil conflict to a new level, the BBC's Middle East editor Jeremy Bowen says.

    A civil war would destroy the chances of the elected Shia-led government which is still being formed following December's election, and could lead to the break-up of the country, he says.

    Mounting toll

    In the heaviest single loss of life, the 47 factory workers were killed after being dragged out of their vehicles in Nahrawan, on the outskirts of Baghdad.

    The victims, aged between 20 and 50, had been travelling home from work in a convoy of buses when they were ambushed and shot dead.

    It is not clear whether the murders are linked to the attack on the shrine or whether they are part of the general insurgency.

    Elsewhere, the bodies of a prominent al-Arabiya TV reporter and two of her crew, who had gone to cover the attack on the shrine, were discovered on Thursday morning.

    Correspondent Atwar Bahjat's body was among the three found about 15km (10 miles) north of Samarra.

    At least 12 people died in a bomb attack on an Iraqi army patrol in the town of Baquba, while one person died in a gun attack on a Sunni mosque in the city.

    In other attacks, four US soldiers were killed near Hawijah, while three died near Balad, when their vehicles were hit by roadside bombs, the US army said on Thursday.

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