Suggestion: Government System

[Foot]

I'm loving the government system at the moment. I love roleplaying which government system I will put in place depending on my expansion plans overall - makes for some interesting decisions. However there is one problem I have found, something which will be exemplified in the upcoming patch, I fear. If you cannot build any units until you have a government system in place then it does kind of limit your recruiting options if your working toward a homeland government system for 5 years.

Now I'm not advocating any serious change in the build times for government systems, but I think that a small change is needed. If you could still have the option of building other government buildings after building a tier 4 government building then that would mean you could recruit the simple troops from that province while converting them into a more loyal province. Once built, of course, the new government building would replace the tier 4 government building (so there are no conflicts). At the moment if you build a 4 tier government to tie you over until you get the money to bring your new province more firmly under your command you no longer have the choice to build any of the other tiers. This means that to upgrade a province to a tier 1 building you have to destroy the old one (thus losing the ability to build units) and wait 5 years before you can recruit units.

So after conquering a new province you would quickly put a puppet governer (tier 4) in charge of keeping the peace while you slowly place the its people under a more permanent subjugation method (tier 1+2+3), which makes sense to my mind. At the moment the policy is to put a puppet governer (tier 4) in charge of keeping the peace and then when you want to put them under a more permanent subjugation method you have to dispose the puppet governer and leave that province without a government (ie military control) for up to 5 years. That, to my mind, does not make any sense.

Does that make sense?

Foot

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Actually, if you build a type4, you can keep it in place for a number of years, then destroy it and build a type3 or type2 or even type1 if possible. It's acceptable after a number of years to force an ally to undergo a more thorough change. Just destroy the govt building and build a new one of a different type. The only one that's not very logical would be installing a type1 or 2 and then much later destroying it for a type3 or 4. But there's nothing to stop that either really. Just not very productive.

We willhave something for future builds that makes the type4 much more like an ally and less like a part of your regular empire. But it's just not tested out and ready yet. It won't be in the patch, but I'm hoping we can get it in the next full build, which hopefully won't be too much longer after the patch comes out.

[QwertyMIDX]

I'd also like to make it a bit more progressive, but I don't think we can swing that.

[Foot]

Actually, if you build a type4, you can keep it in place for a number of years, then destroy it and build a type3 or type2 or even type1 if possible. It's acceptable after a number of years to force an ally to undergo a more thorough change. Just destroy the govt building and build a new one of a different type. The only one that's not very logical would be installing a type1 or 2 and then much later destroying it for a type3 or 4. But there's nothing to stop that either really. Just not very productive.

We willhave something for future builds that makes the type4 much more like an ally and less like a part of your regular empire. But it's just not tested out and ready yet. It won't be in the patch, but I'm hoping we can get it in the next full build, which hopefully won't be too much longer after the patch comes out.

I realise that you can buid a type 4 government then destroy it and replace it with a type 1, 2 or 3, my point was that it makes no sense to have to destroy it first. In game terms it is highly annoying (especially when you can only recruit with a government in place) to have to have no government in place inbetween destroying a type 4 and building a type 1, 2 or 3. In real-life terms (if I can call it that) it makes no sense in my mind to have to take out a puppet ruler just so you can further integrate a province into your culture and government system.

What I was trying to explain was a kind of progressive building system (much in the same way to barracks etc) where having a level 4 goverment system would still allow you to have the option to build level 1, 2 or 3 governments in its place. In diagram form:-

CURRENT SYSTEM:
Type 1
Type 2
Type 3
Type 4

(building any government automatically excludes you from building any other type of government until you destroy previous government)

MIC SYSTEM:
Level 1 => Level 2 => Level 3 => Level 4

(building level 1 upgrades to build level 2, which upgrades to build level 3, which upgrades to build level 4)

PROPOSED GOVERNMENT SYSTEM
..........=> Type 1
Type 4 => Type 2
..........=> Type 3

(building type 4 upgrades to build type 1 xor type 2 xor type 3).

In actual reality terms this would represent placing an intermediate (or, if you do not replace, permanent) type 4 government in a province while you slowly convert the people to a type 1, 2 or 3 government (if that is what you want to do).

As it stands the current system seems to represent having only a military-based government (i.e. no actual government and just a general and his army in control) as the only intermediate government possible.

Now, whether the proposed system is possible (I have not seen a building that allows multiple upgrade options) is a different matter

I hope this has explained to clearer than last time.

Foot

[Foot]

If the multiple upgrades isn't possible then perhaps a completely progressive government system would work. Again in diagram form:

COMPLETELY PROGRESSIVE GOVERNMENT SYSTEM:
Type 4 => Type 3 => Type 2 => Type 1.

(Type 4 upgrades to type 3, which upgrades to type 2, which upgrades to type 1 - n.b. adjust the time to build and cost to build accordingly so that both build time and cost to get to Type 1, Type 2 or Type 3 is still the same as in the current system)

Foot

[Iskandr]

While this might work in some areas, I can think of several areas where the local warlords/nobles/tyrants were skipped entirely, and the area incorporated directly into the kingdom/empire. Look at Carthage- the Romans sure didn't put any locals in charge of anything, just went straight to conquered territory under a Proconsul. I guess you could argue that between the 2nd and 3rd Punic wars Carthage was a "client kingdom" or some such, and maybe in game terms it makes sense to do so, but they sure as heck put up a fight before accepting Type 2 government (or whatever, still haven't played as Rome). And look what happened in Judea when they replaced a puppet king with direct rule- looks alot like they didn't have the ability to recruit there for a while, to say the least. I'm not that familiar with how other factions historically handled conquered territory during this timeframe, but it seems from what I do know that the status of territory once conquered stayed pretty much the same until a major revolt or political shift caused a sizeable reorganization. Frankly, I think destroying a government building (once it's built by your faction) should cause, at the least, an immediate revolt- but I dunno how to script such an event.



Iskandr