O'Reilly: Dems are right, get out of Iraq now

[solypsist]

"O'REILLY: Somewhat of a disturbing report out of Iraq, and it's more important than it first appears. The governor of -- or the mayor of Karbala, which is a town in the south part of Iraq, Shiite-controlled, has banned any further government dealings with the American military in his province, saying that they're not behaving well.

Now, it's a small little thing, but I picked up on it, because here is the essential problem in Iraq. There are so many nuts in the country -- so many crazies -- that we can't control them. And I don't -- we're never gonna be able to control them. So the only solution to this is to hand over everything to the Iraqis as fast as humanly possible. Because we just can't control these crazy people. This is all over the place. And that was the big mistake about America: They didn't -- it was the crazy-people underestimation. We did not know how to deal with them -- still don't. But they're just all over the place. "

http://mediamatters.org/items/200602220007

Grrr Im So Angry At Oreilly For Coming To The Correct Conclusion. Its Just Sooo Irrrritating When He Is Right.

[Samurai Waki]

Well, if even the conservatives are saying it now...then it means we must leave, it is absolutely pointless to stay any further, I don't want any more of America's Finest getting killed in a Civil War that has no meaning to us, especially considering that it'll make Somalia look like a Circus Show.

[Hurin_Rules]

You can just see Bush saying, as LBJ reportedly said of Walter Cronkite, "If I've lost O'Reilly, I've lost the nation."

Now, that will be the one and only time I compare Walter Cronkite to Bill O'Reilly (sorry, Walter!).

P.S. What's all this crap about under estimation? Many CIA and foreign policy analysts (not to mention numerous people just on these boards, myself included) predicted exactly this years ago: a civil war. It's just that the Bush admin. didn't want to listen to them.

[master of the puppets]

so you would drop the country full of innocent people who really do like us and give them to the "Crazies"

[Dâriûsh]

You break it, you buy it?

[solypsist]

Know what's even more funny? He's basically taking Cindy Sheehan's position.

[Kanamori]

Pulling out is about one of the worst things that could happen now... We need some serious NATO peacekeeping help, or a draft for this mess. I just hope I'm wrong.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

You break it, you buy it?

True, to a goodly extent.

While withdrawing the bulk of America's armed forces deployed in Iraq has to be an objective, efforts must continue to train Iraqi forces, weed out the death squads, and keep building government infrastructure.

Far too many competing parties over there really do want it to degenerate into warlordism and establish fiefs for themselves. This has some chance of happening in any case.

If America fails to prop up the new regime well enough to at least give it a chance of establishing some positive inertia, then "Nelly-bar-the-door."


A civil war in Iraq means the following become distinctly possible:

1. A full-on pogrom against Sunnis, resulting in political control of most of Southern Iraw falling to Qom.

2. The likely intervention of Turkey into Northern Iraq, not for conquest (Turks aren't dumb) but to cripple all infrastructure in the area and prevent the formation of an aggressive Kurdistan.

3. Syria will re-establish control of Lebanon, allowing for attacks into Northern Israel by those wishing to side-step the "fence."

4. An increased level of support for the armed struggle against Israel by Palestinian militants -- the other arab states don't really need them to win, just to keep Israel bleeding and give their local militants a place to go fight in the jihad (rather than upset the apple-cart at home).

5. Peace and quiet in Europe for at least 5 years, with little or no terrorist activity and very few violent protests.

6. The USA will cease to function as a Superpower, allowing China to assume a more dominant position in Asia and freeing most of Europe from the need to support/work with US policy.

7. The USA's budget will return to more balanced levels, domestic spending by the government will increase, American business will enjoy a period of prosperity -- though the defense industries will take a huge hit.

8. The trend toward Chavez-style socialism and the repudiation of IMF/World Bank efforts in South America will increase.


And yes, Naysayers will tell us that such things were virtually guaranteed the very day we destroyed Saddam's regime and that the USA should never have done anything to Iraq except drop the sanctions that were killing children and let the old regime keep a lid on. You needn't repeat it again.

[Fragony]

Pulling out is about one of the worst things that could happen now... .

Ya, pulling out would be a disaster. Time for the UN to prove they actually have some use. American/english troops need to be under UN banner from now on, they have made too many mistakes. It would at least look like a fresh start.

[solypsist]

why leave now when the insurgency is "in its last throes?"

Ya, pulling out would be a disaster. Time for the UN to prove they actually have some use. American/english troops need to be under UN banner from now on, they have made too many mistakes. It would at least look like a fresh start.

[t1master]

get the sky blue spray paint ready...

[Fragony]

why leave now when the insurgency is "in its last throes?"

Not sure I understand, explain please?

[Devastatin Dave]

We just need to air drop Soly and his hunnies in there. All the violence steams from the lack of sweet tail and jiggling juggies.

[solypsist]

funny thing is, i actually applied 2 months ago for a photojourno assignment to iraq (strictly greenzone stuff). received word this week (tuesday) i was greenlighted and it was just a waiting game (i still have time to change my mind right up to the time i actually land there). hmmm...i might have to rethink this.

We just need to air drop Soly and his hunnies in there. All the violence steams from the lack of sweet tail and jiggling juggies.

[Tribesman]

Now, it's a small little thing, but I picked up on it, because here is the essential problem in Iraq. There are so many nuts in the country -- so many crazies -- that we can't control them. And I don't -- we're never gonna be able to control them. So the only solution to this is to hand over everything to the Iraqis as fast as humanly possible. Because we just can't control these crazy people.
How dare he , this is disgraceful .
Is the world at its end , who would have thought that O'Reilly would talk about US soldiers like this .

So what is he suggesting , more thorough screening at the enlistment stage to get rid of the nuts , or better supervision so that the crazies don't make silly mistakes .

[Reenk Roink]

How dare he , this is disgraceful .
Is the world at its end , who would have thought that O'Reilly would talk about US soldiers like this .

So what is he suggesting , more thorough screening at the enlistment stage to get rid of the nuts , or better supervision so that the crazies don't make silly mistakes .

ZING!!!

[Don Corleone]

With all due respect, nobody I listen to gives Bill O'Reily the time of day. I'll make a deal... I won't wake Al Franken the spokesperson for the Democratic Left and make you guys own every foolish statement he makes, and in exchange you let Mr. O'Reily continue to rant away in his own little parallel universe.

[Devastatin Dave]

funny thing is, i actually applied 2 months ago for a photojourno assignment to iraq (strictly greenzone stuff). received word this week (tuesday) i was greenlighted and it was just a waiting game (i still have time to change my mind right up to the time i actually land there). hmmm...i might have to rethink this.

Good for you, be sure to wear a iron turtle neck. Be careful Soly, in all seriousness.

[master of the puppets]

With all due respect, nobody I listen to gives Bill O'Reily the time of day. I'll make a deal... I won't wake Al Franken the spokesperson for the Democratic Left and make you guys own every foolish statement he makes, and in exchange you let Mr. O'Reily continue to rant away in his own little parallel universe.

or we could lock them in the same room and see how they intend on making the world a perfect place.

Really iraq is just a bunch of rival religions and parties who are participating in the election cause they need a leading force, of course all of this (grudging) cooperation would fall apart if the glue that holds it together (US, Brits) were to leave. what the sunnis of the area want is for this to happen,, a complete collapse into militantism, for it is only in violent turmoil that they can undo the vastly greater majority and yet peacful shi'ah. if we get out now, when there are fewer and fewer insugents alive, there will be nothing left but the french blaming us for pulling out when they called for it and what was once iraq will become a few small nations at each others throats with bombs going off everywhere.

[Husar]

5. Peace and quiet in Europe for at least 5 years, with little or no terrorist activity and very few violent protests.

6. The USA will cease to function as a Superpower, allowing China to assume a more dominant position in Asia and freeing most of Europe from the need to support/work with US policy.

7. The USA's budget will return to more balanced levels, domestic spending by the government will increase, American business will enjoy a period of prosperity -- though the defense industries will take a huge hit.

8. The trend toward Chavez-style socialism and the repudiation of IMF/World Bank efforts in South America will increase.

These three sound good to me.

[Tribesman]

Really iraq is just a bunch of rival religions and parties who are participating in the election cause they need a leading force, of course all of this (grudging) cooperation would fall apart if the glue that holds it together (US, Brits) were to leave. what the sunnis of the area want is for this to happen,, a complete collapse into militantism, for it is only in violent turmoil that they can undo the vastly greater majority and yet peacful shi'ah. if we get out now, when there are fewer and fewer insugents alive, there will be nothing left but the french blaming us for pulling out when they called for it and what was once iraq will become a few small nations at each others throats with bombs going off everywhere.

Could someone translate this statement for me please ?

[Hurin_Rules]

Not sure I understand, explain please?

Monday, June 20, 2005; Posted: 12:19 p.m. EDT (16:19 GMT)

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The insurgency in Iraq is "in the last throes," Vice President Dick Cheney says, and he predicts that the fighting will end before the Bush administration leaves office.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/05/30/cheney.iraq/

[Adrian II]

Could someone translate this statement for me please ?

Something about the French, I believe. Olympic Games maybe?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

These three sound good to me.

I didn't think everyone would be against all of the potentialities, nor that they would be universally bad.

On the other hand, labeling 5-8 inclusive as "three" speaks poorly for your skill with mathematics.

Can I borrow $30 from you?

[Xiahou]

With all due respect, nobody I listen to gives Bill O'Reily the time of day. I'll make a deal... I won't wake Al Franken the spokesperson for the Democratic Left and make you guys own every foolish statement he makes, and in exchange you let Mr. O'Reily continue to rant away in his own little parallel universe.

Honestly, the guy is a complete dullard and egomaniac. He's entertaining on occasion, yes- but not to be taken seriously.

[Divinus Arma]

I like the idea of transfering peace keeping to a joint UN-Iraqi force. It would seem like a fresh start and a positive transition.

What's worse then this crackpot mayor is the recent bombing of the shia mosque and the shia retaliation on sunnis mosques. That's bad juju for sure!

*Maybe* splitting up Iraq along ethnic lines would be a good thing. It's borders were established arbitrarily anyhow. I don't know enough about the consequences though to comment further. I know that Iranian influence in the Shia region would grow, Turkey would be pissed because of kurdish steps towards an Independant Kurdistan, and that the Sunni regions would grow closer to Syria, which is Sunni and Ba'ath...

O'reilly is a hothead anyway. He sometimes makes good points, but mostly he's just into himself.

[Tribesman]

What's worse then this crackpot mayor
Crackpot mayor , or crackpot troops ?
If you want to sniff out hidden stuff bring the dog , if you want to frighten prisoners bring the dog , if you want to visit the mayor in his office , leave the mutt outside .

I like the idea of transfering peace keeping to a joint UN-Iraqi force. It would seem like a fresh start and a positive transition.

Did you find President Tribesmans plan Divinus
A couple of problems , how are you going to get enough countries to stump up the neccasary numbers of troops/police .
Joint Iraqi ..which sort of Iraqi , after yesterdays events what are the possibilities of a unified Iraqi force working effectively , with or without the UN ?
A transition , to what ?

*Maybe* splitting up Iraq along ethnic lines would be a good thing.
Maybe , but then you have to handle massive population transfers , complete infrastructure reworking and the real possibility of 3 warring nations that are also in a state of civil war themselves and the spreading and escalation of the problem to cover the whole region .
Bleak prospects whichever way you look at it

[Divinus Arma]

Did you find President Tribesmans plan Divinus

Nope. I'm still waiting. Give me a link if you have been down this road. I know I have asked you plenty of times what your solution was.

I asked you here.

And here.

And here.


It's easy to sit and point out problems. The hard part is coming up with solutions. And when you do come up with a solution, good luck on having enough people agree on it and good luck seeing it through to the end because the armchair quarterbacks will knock it a year in.

[edit: language] Re-edit:What Language? Neverind. This is hardly worth it.

So, once again. Tribesman, what is your solution?

[Ice]

Grrr Im So Angry At Oreilly For Coming To The Correct Conclusion. Its Just Sooo Irrrritating When He Is Right.

He isn't right.

[master of the puppets]

Could someone translate this statement for me please ?

i'm saying if the US pulls out now the country will implode and people will blame us cause we pulled out...upon there wishes.