Jesus family tree?

**yesdachi** · 02-24-2006, 01:22

Does anyone know how many brothers and/or sisters Jesus had?

All the info that I find is a bit sketchy at best. Any help would be appreciated.

**orangat** · 02-24-2006, 01:48

Originally Posted by yesdachi

Does anyone know how many brothers and/or sisters Jesus had?

All the info that I find is a bit sketchy at best. Any help would be appreciated.

None of course. Why else do you think Virgin Mary is called thus?

There is speculation that Joseph might be an elderly widower when he married Mary and might previously have had children of his own.

**Louis VI the Fat** · 02-24-2006, 02:09

Well, Jesus was raised in a rather un-Christian family.

He was concieved by a mother who used some kind of pre-modern IVF method to get pregnant.

As a result, he never knew his biological father. This led to severe psychological problems, with him at one point claiming he himself was his own father but also not.

Maybe as a result of this, he had a fondness for male 'companionship' as an adult. With sleepover parties in public parks and all.

He refused to follow in the footsteps of his non-biological father and didn't take over his business. Though the carpenting skills he learned as a youngster proved to come in quite handy towards the end of his life.

Mark 6:3 states:
"Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us?"

Apart from their names, we know nothing about them. With the exception of James, who is mentioned in a 49 A.D. source as rabbi in Jerusalem.

Catholics, obsessed with Mary's perpetual virginity, do however hold that we should not accept 'brother' in Mark 6:3 to mean brother.

**ajaxfetish** · 02-24-2006, 02:20

Catholic doctrine claims that Mary remained a virgin after Christ's birth. The biblical record doesn't make that claim. As Louis mentioned, there is a mention of some brothers and sisters in Mark, though there is no definitive number given and no names for sisters. I've heard speculation that the books of James and Jude in the New Testament were written by two of those brothers, but I'm not sure what evidence there is or is not to support this. I also know of no other passages that refer to his siblings.

Ajax

**Mount Suribachi** · 02-24-2006, 11:10

Matthew 13:55 also has the same passage as Louis quoted, mentioning James, Joseph, Judas and Simon.

Other passages

Matthew 12:47 "your mother and brothers are outside wanting to speak to you"

John 2:12 "After this he went down to Capernaum with his mother, brothers and his disciples"

Acts 1:14 "They all joined together constantly in prayer, along with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus and with his brothers"

All of his family were sceptical of Jesus during his ministry, "For even his own brothers did not believe him" (Johnn 7:5). James is mentioned nowhere else in the gospels, nor is he listed as one of the 12 apostles (and shouldn't be confused with James, son of Zebedee or James son of Alphaeus). After Jesus's resurection he appeared to James (1 Cor 15:7) who then became a believer and one the leaders of the early church, and the other brothers took believers as wives and became missionaries. James oversaw the church in Jerusalem. He was advocated respect for Jewish law, but was flexible enough to admit gentiles into Christian fellowship (acts 15:12-21, 21:18-25). James is widely regarded to have written the Epistle of James, one of the most popular books of the New Testament IMO, due to its practical teaching on christian living and its emphasis on salvation by faith, a faith shown by good works and christian living.

We know little about Jude, other than his name, and that there is the book of Jude in the NT, whose author identifies himself as "a Servant of Jesus Christ and the brother of James"

Joses/Joseph we know nothing else about

Same goes for Simon (not to be confused with the apostles Simon Peter and Simon the Canaanite).

There was also a kind of gravestone (Stele?) found in Jerusalem a few years ago, dated from the correct era that may well have belonged to one of Jesus's brothers (I forget which one, possibly James). Naturally it caused a controversy due to the different beliefs regarding Jesus's family held by the Roman Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant churches. A search on the internet should reveal more - was a fascinating find.

**The Blind King of Bohemia** · 02-24-2006, 12:41

Read a book called the Messianic Legacy, it suggests that Jesus had at least one brother, some kids and a wife. Also the book Holy Blood, Holy Grail looks at it. Avoid the crap in the Da Vinci Code. The above books are much better imo

**lars573** · 02-24-2006, 16:41

Except that "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" is just as much if not more BS than the DaVinci code.

**doc_bean** · 02-27-2006, 11:46

Originally Posted by ajaxfetish

Catholic doctrine claims that Mary remained a virgin after Christ's birth.

Actually Catholic doctrine doesn't even assume Mary was a virgin when she gave birth to Jesus. It says that Mary was without 'the burden of sin caused by Adam and Eve'.

It's one of those little aspects of Catholicism they don't really talk about much.

**orangat** · 03-03-2006, 01:50

Originally Posted by doc_bean

Actually Catholic doctrine doesn't even assume Mary was a virgin when she gave birth to Jesus. It says that Mary was without 'the burden of sin caused by Adam and Eve'.

It's one of those little aspects of Catholicism they don't really talk about much.

I'm certain you're incorrect here. Catholic's believe in Mary's perpetual virginity.

**Louis VI the Fat** · 03-03-2006, 11:26

Originally Posted by orangat

Catholic's believe in Mary's perpetual virginity.

I believe they do so indeed.

doc_bean makes an important point though about a perpetual mistake. The mistake that 'immaculate conception' means Mary was a virgin when she conceived Jesus. It refers not to any immaculate or 'virgin' conception of Jesus, but to the conception of Mary - who was free from hereditary sin.

**orangat** · 02-24-2006, 17:59

Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat

:........

Mark 6:3 states:
"Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us?"

Apart from their names, we know nothing about them. With the exception of James, who is mentioned in a 49 A.D. source as rabbi in Jerusalem.

Catholics, obsessed with Mary's perpetual virginity, do however hold that we should not accept 'brother' in Mark 6:3 to mean brother.

Considering that Jesus's previous occupation actually meant artisan instead of carpenter they may have a point.

**Kraxis** · 02-24-2006, 19:36

Originally Posted by orangat

Considering that Jesus's previous occupation actually meant artisan instead of carpenter they may have a point.

Of course that would need for us to consider that Josef and Mary married but never carried out that marriage in full. How likely is that?
Mary herself weren't holy, but she carried out her mission. That much is what you get. The bible does not indicate that she was a sort of married nun. And what would the point be of that? For her there is none.

**Louis VI the Fat** · 02-24-2006, 20:10

The Greek word 'tectone' relates to construction activities. It can mean builder, carpenter, artisan, architect. Recent investigation claims that Jesus probably was not from the poor, humble family background that tradition said he was. Hence the modern English translation of 'tectone' as more middle-class 'artisan' instead of lower-class, uneducated 'carpenter'.

The Greek word 'adelphos' means brother. Unlike tectone, it's meaning is less ambigious. Except through some very imaginative reading, it can only mean brother in the sense of sibling in Marc 6:3.