Spies!

[Petsman]

In order to prevent spies from entering your cities, do you put spies or assasins?
Assasins can kill spies if they are both stationed in a city??

[Pomerium]

Its my understanding that a combination of both will help in anti-espionage.
I would like to be enlightened too on this subject.
Best defense is to take spies out before they get there. Tough with new assassins, but it keeps you busy!

[Ludens]

To get rid of enemy spies in your own cities, use spies. To get rid of enemy spies in enemy cities, use assassins.

High-level spies are tricky to kill even in your own cities: they tend to get expelled but not killed, and will cheerfully reinfiltrate the next turn. The only thing that helps here is another high level spy. I don't think assassins kill spies unless ordered to assassinate them, and they cannot do so your own towns.

[Petsman]

OK, but can assasins be used to spot and to get reed of spies in your own cities?

[Avicenna]

No, assassins don't have the dagger icon showing up when you scroll over your own cities, so if you right click they enter the city but they cannot kill spies in your city.

[gardibolt]

But if you have an assassin in the town, when an enemy spy is expelled he's visible and then can be murdered pretty easily (though one of my assassins was killed last night by a 9-eye spy).

[Avicenna]

Of course, you could do what gardibolt suggested, but the 200 denarii per turn upkeep for an assassin who is just going to sit there growing old waiting for spies is not my idea of money well spent.

[Kralizec]

You should use spies for that. They're cheaper, and help just as much if not more then assasins. Stationing agents (even diplomats) also works wonders against city bribing.

On the subject of agents, does anybody know if the AI actually used their assasins? I have seen AI assasins occasionally, but now that I think of it I have never, ever got a message that an enemy assasin has sabotaged building X or killed person Y.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I've had one Brutii diplomat whose career was ended abruptly by an Egyptian assassin. This is, however, the only instance in dozens of hours of play. Assassins are late-game creatures for me -- its hard to justify the expense until you've got A) good income and B) someone who can with traits etc. build them for half cost or so (Diplomats for 90d!).

[gardibolt]

Of course, you could do what gardibolt suggested, but the 200 denarii per turn upkeep for an assassin who is just going to sit there growing old waiting for spies is not my idea of money well spent.

Of course, you keep him in practice by killing diplomats and family members who wander into your territory too.

[Upxl]

I also believe the amount of men garrisoned in you’re city makes it harder for a spy to infiltrate

[Kralizec]

I've had one Brutii diplomat whose career was ended abruptly by an Egyptian assassin. This is, however, the only instance in dozens of hours of play. Assassins are late-game creatures for me -- its hard to justify the expense until you've got A) good income and B) someone who can with traits etc. build them for half cost or so (Diplomats for 90d!).

Recruitment costs are a one time fee. The real costs in SP campaigns are their upkeep, recruitment costs are marginal.

I usually have 4-5 assasins at any given time, have them kill low level diplomats and if I encounter them, spies and other assasins- generally I only accept with a >80% chance of succes. If necessary I even target captains even though that won't really hurt the enemy. Anything that can pump up their experience.

After a while, they can even take on low-quality family members. That's when they become really useful.

[Severous]

I prefer to use spies and assasins offensively.

Spies lower the enemy city public order %. An assassin then destroys the temple lowering pulic order significantly. Julii espionage made Carthage became rebel. Carthage crippled itself in its fight to regain that city.

I suppose your preference depends on how aggressively you play. If you sit back and let the enemy factions become advanced then counter spies will become more important for you.

[Kralizec]

I do that too, but in my experience it's extremely hard to make a settlement turn rebel. 9 out of 10 times they just riot and won't rebel, unless the settlement has previously belonged to another faction.

[gardibolt]

Even rioting is good though since it reduces the number of troops garrisoning the city, making its eventual seizure easier.

[Severous]

Up to 10 'eyes' worth of spies can be used. Each eye of spy experience reduces order by 5%. Knock out a big temple and the drop in order is significant. All occur in one turn..big hit so city has no time to react. Carthage and Cordoba were my targets...both big cities straining against squalor and quite close to the line. Not so good against small cities.

[Garvanko]

I'd recruit a spy for every city, then recruit and send at least a couple of spies to any enemy city on your frontier. Then, if you like, recruit and send spies to every friendly city on your borders.. Then, recruit and... well you get the point.

Espionage (coupled with assassination) is always worth it in the end. Much more so than diplomacy.

[Ciaran]

On the subject of agents, does anybody know if the AI actually used their assasins? I have seen AI assasins occasionally, but now that I think of it I have never, ever got a message that an enemy assasin has sabotaged building X or killed person Y.

Yes, they do use them. In my last game (with Scipii) Thracian assasins wiped out the Macedons, who happened to be my protectorate. And sometimes one of your family members "tragically dies" as opposed to "dies of natural courses" or "falls in battle", a good indication he´s been assasinated.