US troops in Iraq want American exit

[solypsist]

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=89130

"A wide-ranging poll of US troops serving in Iraq made public yesterday found that 72 percent believe the United States should exit Iraq within a year. At the same time, 53 percent of the respondents said the number of US troops and bombing missions should be doubled to control the insurgency, according to the poll results. Le Moyne College and Zogby International conducted the survey at several locations inside Iraq, polling 944 soldiers in face-to-face encounters. The pollsters said the survey had a margin of error of 3.3 percent. It found that only 23 percent of those surveyed believe that US troops should stay in Iraq "as long as it takes," President George W. Bush's formulation for how long US forces will remain in the country."


I'm interested to see whether the first reaction will be to question the poll, question the pollsters, question the analysis or dismiss it all out of hand.

The statistic, "More than 80 percent of the respondents said they did not have a negative view of Iraqis because of insurgent attacks," is one I can see coming in for special attention from the my buddy's over there killing all the terrorists he can," brigade, whereas the "An overwhelming majority (85 percent) said the main US mission was "to retaliate for Saddam's role in the 9/11 attacks"," is one I can see being seized upon and argued over by people seeking to reinterpret the 9/11 commission's report.

[Redleg]

A poll is only as good as the questions and the content in which one decides to see it in.

Interesting data nevertheless. Makes me wonder where did they conduct the survey, what type of troops, and most importantly what ranks were interviewed.

[Scurvy]

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=89130

I'm interested to see whether the first reaction will be to question the poll, question the pollsters, question the analysis or dismiss it all out of hand.

[Vladimir]

I for one am totally shocked that American soldiers would rather be safe at home with their loved ones than in a foreign, hostile land. Shocked I tell you!

[Fragony]

Hmmmmm, being in a hostile enviroment in the middle of the desert, or shagging the wife at home, must be a very hard question for the soldiers.

[Tribesman]

That poll must be really biased and selective , how on earth can there be that many idiots who still think Saddam had something to do with 9/11 .

[KukriKhan]

More details on the poll, and relevant numbers, here:
http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1075
the pollster's site.

If you want the actual questions asked, and exec summary, it'll set you back $19.99.

The major news services love this guy Zogby - he calls elections world-wide to within 1% of the actual result.

[solypsist]

I'm sure 80% of the American troops over there would like to be out in a year but I don't think they would stray too far from the party line if it was "we need to be there longer" and demand an exit. There is a big difference between "hey it would be cool to not have to come over here anymore" and "we shouldn't be in Iraq and we need to get out yesterday".

[Redleg]

More details on the poll, and relevant numbers, here:
http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1075
the pollster's site.

If you want the actual questions asked, and exec summary, it'll set you back $19.99.

The major news services love this guy Zogby - he calls elections world-wide to within 1% of the actual result.

Interesting read KukiKhan, shows some aspects that most media stories will not cover. This to me is the most interesting of the data.

The continuing insurgent attacks have not turned U.S. troops against the Iraqi population, the survey shows. More than 80% said they did not hold a negative view of Iraqis because of those attacks. About two in five see the insurgency as being comprised of discontented Sunnis with very few non-Iraqi helpers. “There appears to be confusion on this,” Zogby said. But, he noted, less than a third think that if non-Iraqi terrorists could be prevented from crossing the border into Iraq, the insurgency would end. A majority of troops (53%) said the U.S. should double both the number of troops and bombing missions in order to control the insurgency.

[Fragony]

I'm sure 80% of the American troops over there would like to be out in a year but I don't think they would stray too far from the party line if it was "we need to be there longer" and demand an exit. There is a big difference between "hey it would be cool to not have to come over here anymore" and "we shouldn't be in Iraq and we need to get out yesterday".

There is also a difference between the swing of the day and the overal opinion.
I see these kind of 'impressions' every day in the Netherlands, a little bit of investigation here and there, and all the people with agenda's try to chase it. I would be surprised if they even know what they are talking about, since most apparantly seem to firmly believe in the iraq-9/11 link. If they did some research on this 'we need to be there longer' I wonder what flashy results the pro-war crowd would come up with.

[Spetulhu]

If they did some research on this 'we need to be there longer' I wonder what flashy results the pro-war crowd would come up with.

Probably the 'blog of someone who has a brother/cousin/neighbor etc in Iraq and thus knows "the true story".

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Troops must remain in Iraq at their current until the country is at least partially stable. After that there can be a drawdown but the troops are there to facilitate the change. To leave would be to admit defeat and render all the lives lost meaningless.

[yesdachi]

Sounds like some of our soldiers havent quite made up their minds, 72% say exit and 53% say double the action, thats 125%. the extra 25% are singing with the Clash...
Should I stay or should I go now?
If I go there will be trouble
And if I stay it could be double

@Redleg - you picked out the best paragraph. If the main stream media would report some of that I think it would ease some of the growing tension around my neighborhood.

[Spetulhu]

Sounds like some of our soldiers havent quite made up their minds, 72% say exit and 53% say double the action, thats 125%. the extra 25% are singing with the Clash...

Why do you think that is odd? Exit and double effort are separate questions. Some of those who want out also think there's too few soldiers and bombing missions to get anything done properly.

[Banquo's Ghost]

As has been noted, it would be surprising if the soldiers didn't want to come home. In my day, they didn't poll soldiers, but the sentiment would have been the same. I heartily wanted out of patrolling Northern Ireland, as did my men - in spite of the fact that as an Irishman, one of the reasons I had joined up was to help moderate the terrible schism in my country. (Romantic Naivety was a specialism of mine at twenty-one ) After a couple of months of witnessing the raw brutality that comes with civil war, I wasn't quite so keen.

I think the key in the poll is the high percentage who have a problem with the "as long as it takes" strategy. Most soldiers like to believe their leaders have a plan. Even if it's as hollow as "it'll all be over by Christmas", it allows for a little self-delusion and a lot of black barrack humour that gets you through. Nobody likes mission creep.

To paraphrase some early advice from my colour-sergeant to his young lieutenant:

"Nobody wants to be in a war-zone, son, unless they're still in the training camp. Those who say they do are nutters, and disturb those of us who want to be at home with the wife, but are doing their duty." *

*Colourful metaphors and expressive emphases of the time have been removed.

[Dâriûsh]

Polls are easy to sway.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

For some, these two poll results seem to contradict one another.

I suspect, however, that in the minds of the "boots" on the ground it is precisely the combination that makes the most sense. Check with a few of the ones who have served on such missions, but I believe their rationale would be as follows:

Let's stop dicking around, really ramp up the effort so that we can kill the fuckers, then we get to go home.

Soldiers wanting to go home has a long history -- any culture/time/war.

[Devastatin Dave]

Soly would you rather take pictures of rotting corpses in New Orleans or live hot chick in New York? Well, although taking pictures of rotting corpses in New Orleans would be more of a service for your fellow man by assisting investigations and identification purposes, its preferable to take pictures of hot chicks. When I was in Korea for a year, I would have much rather have been playing hide the winky with the wife but i was providing a service to my Nation and an allie which in most circles is more important.
Who would rather eat steak or eat rusty nails?

[solypsist]

jealous?

Soly would you rather take pictures of rotting corpses in New Orleans or live hot chick in New York? Well, although taking pictures of rotting corpses in New Orleans would be more of a service for your fellow man by assisting investigations and identification purposes, its preferable to take pictures of hot chicks. When I was in Korea for a year, I would have much rather have been playing hide the winky with the wife but i was providing a service to my Nation and an allie which in most circles is more important.
Who would rather eat steak or eat rusty nails?

[Devastatin Dave]

jealous?

No, I just found the title of your thread kind of on the "well duh" catagory.
I wasn't trying to slam you personnaly Soly, I was simply trying to put this into a context that you could maybe see my point. But it would be sweet to take pictures of hot half naked chicks... SO THEN THERE!!! YES I'm JEALOUS YOU ROTTEN *******!!!

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Soldiers wanting to go home has a long history -- any culture/time/war.

Except they aren't actually there to kill anybody, and if they act like they are they'll be there even longer. They're there to create the conditions for democracy to develope.

[Redleg]

No, I just found the title of your thread kind of on the "well duh" catagory.
I wasn't trying to slam you personnaly Soly, I was simply trying to put this into a context that you could maybe see my point. But it would be sweet to take pictures of hot half naked chicks... SO THEN THERE!!! YES I'm JEALOUS YOU ROTTEN *******!!!

Calling Devastatin Dave's house to get the wife's email so that I can send a screen shot of this message. Of Course I will have altered it to get Dave in even more trouble.

[Devastatin Dave]

Calling Devastatin Dave's house to get the wife's email so that I can send a screen shot of this message. Of Course I will have altered it to get Dave in even more trouble.

Someone hacked my account, I never wrote those things, I Swear!!!

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Didn't Zogby call Kerry in a landslide?

Zogby gained national respect with his polling accuracy in the 1996 presidential election and in subsequent political races. But on Election Day this year, he predicted that Kerry would win 311 electoral votes and the presidency. Instead, President Bush won 286 electoral votes, 16 more than he needed for re-election.

And I think everybody's said something like "polls aren't everything" here in the Backroom.

And I agree with the "53 percent of the respondents" that "said the number of US troops and bombing missions should be doubled to control the insurgency." We didn't have enough people and resources lined up from the start.

[Lord Winter]

A majority of the troops serving in Iraq said they were satisfied with the war provisions from Washington. Just 30% of troops said they think the Department of Defense has failed to provide adequate troop protections, such as body armor, munitions, and armor plating for vehicles like HumVees. Only 35% said basic civil infrastructure in Iraq, including roads, electricity, water service, and health care, has not improved over the past year. Three of every four were male respondents, with 63% under the age of 30.

This is interseting, 70% of them think the DoD is doing a good job. Now i wonder why the media diddnt report that side of it...