Why Hate America??

[Kongamato]

This is the kind of post I'd write and then delete afterwards, but I think I'll post it anyway.

There are several different Americas that we can look at here. All have some folks who dislike it, "hate" often being too strong a word to use here. The key thing is that hate is irrational, and there is a difference with disagreement and hate. Be able to tell the hateful BS and the respectful disagreement apart. The reasons they have for disliking America as a state are usually due the mistakes we've made in foreign policy and our territorial expansion. While we did help rebuild Europe and Japan, I think they are seeing this as a "What have you done for me lately" world, and that we're a big, trouble-making bully.

Some hate America, Inc. I have a suspicion that the only contact with America that many of these folks get is from McDonalds and Microsoft. Ever heard of "McWorld"? To these folks, America is the embodiment of faceless consumerism, and we Americans are mindless sheep, serving the Megacorps as they seek to mass-produce all products, remove all individualism, stomp on puppies, and take their pr0n away. Others just think Coca-Cola tastes bad.

Some hate "Americans", or "ze Amereekans". We are stereotyped as obese, self-important puritanical corporate slaves addicted to lowbrow entertainment. Oh, and we're also really stupid, too. Our display of patriotism also bothers many. In post-9/11 patriotism, we've agreed to give support to "The Man" in order to eliminate our enemies. However, their distrust of power has them see this as more sheep-like devotion to a rogue state out to take all the oil from the world and drain innocent Arab blood for use in slip-n-slide parties. And then others just think country music and rap are silly.

I've begun to exaggerate. Anti-americanism has many forms, some of it being a disagreement with our national problem-solving methods, other forms of it being a rejection of popular, standard things to appear more "sophisticated" and "intellectual", true or not. What I think is going on is that many of the forces in this world are best represented by America. We're the main part of a lot of things, and all roads are leading to us. So many things out there can be considered "American" and some people are bound to dislike them. If either you or they consider this "hating America" then I think that a re-evaluation of opinion is in order. However, if somebody says we caused the Indonesian Tsunami because Israel said to, maybe we could call that hate.

[Kanamori]

The inflated sense of self importance is one reason. The fact that this thread was even made reflects that, as does thinking that all of them "hate" us and thinking that they spend all of their time going off about us.

[Ianofsmeg16]

People should just ignore European Criticisms of America. They were criticizing us and hampering us even during the Korean War, when 90% of the troops, and nearly all of the funding was ours. They were doing it while we were dishing out billions of Dollars to rebuild Europe with the Marshal plan!

Don't question our motives. You have no right to do that. Our actions have enabled your pathetic little countries to survive this long, and to prosper. Show some respect.

Some of you Americans like to believe your still the 'underdog' against a europe that is united in flaming you (in political terms), but what you guys dont seem to realise, or appreciate, is that britain has stood by you without fail for the past 60 years since WW2, no matter how much the French, Germans or Italians or who ever blame you for all their problems, the United Kingdom has been your ally, so maybe please can YOU show a little Goddamn respect.

[SwordsMaster]

... And this is, yet again, an example of a Backroom topic's self-destruction.

[Ianofsmeg16]

My my, how euro-centric...

If my mate Silverknight was being euro-centric and generalising the American people, what was GC doing here?

People should just ignore European Criticisms of America. They were criticizing us and hampering us even during the Korean War, when 90% of the troops, and nearly all of the funding was ours. They were doing it while we were dishing out billions of Dollars to rebuild Europe with the Marshal plan!

Don't question our motives. You have no right to do that. Our actions have enabled your pathetic little countries to survive this long, and to prosper. Show some respect.

Too be honest I think GC should apologise for calling us pathetic little countries when clearly some of you have the maturity of a five year old. I myself do not like being called pathetic and take GREAT offence if I am called such. So I ask everybody who agrees with what GC has said to show us a little respect, becasue not all europeans are American hating ********, I for one love visiting your country, but if i'm treated as an American hating pathetic little person, i may not visit there in future.

[Reenk Roink]

If my mate Silverknight was being euro-centric and generalising the American people, what was GC doing here?

Too be honest I think GC should apologise for calling us pathetic little countries when clearly some of you have the maturity of a five year old. I myself do not like being called pathetic and take GREAT offence if I am called such. So I ask everybody who agrees with what GC has said to show us a little respect, becasue not all europeans are American hating ********, I for one love visiting your country, but if i'm treated as an American hating pathetic little person, i may not visit there in future.

He should, but he is a jingoist...

They have them in Europe too, you can't reason with them...

Nobody is supporting or defending GC's words...

[Ice]

that britain has stood by you without fail for the past 60 years since WW2, no matter how much the French, Germans or Italians or who ever blame you for all their problems, the United Kingdom has been your ally, so maybe please can YOU show a little Goddamn respect.

I agree. Like I said in the Falkland thread, Britian is probably our best ally we have and I would fully support any action that helps them.

Kongamato, very good explanation.

[Don Corleone]

Good grief. You know what's really funny? The ignorance on both sides of this issue.

I think you take Louis', Beirut's and Kongamato's arguments together and there you have it. More importantly, I think Soly had the best point in this thread so far.

First off, Silver Knight, when you describe us as the rudest, most arrogant bags of wind on the planet (and truthfully, I do actually know some Americans that fit that bill) you should realize that in general, if you ever actually meet a few of us and quit relying on TV and friends for your opinions, I think you'll find we tend to be a little more cloistered than most people, not through arrogance, but through simple insularism. We tend to be considerate and friendly, but generally, only when we actually know somebody.

Second, Gel Cube, SFTS, you know, making these jokes don't exactly help. Jokes are only funny when you consider your target audience. It's not funny if they think you're serious and you confirm the stereotypes you're trying to poke fun at.

All in all, I think a lot of Americans don't realize that the finger poking that gets sent our way goes on among just about everyone else. You have to realize, America is roughly the same size as Europe. Just travelling the length and breath of our own country is enough to keep your average Joe occupied for a lifetime. What's more, when we do come to visit, we don't receive the warmest of welcomes. Fact is, some Europeans do have a chip on their shoulder. Most don't, but the ones that do tend to be vocal enough that we feel very unwelcome and wind up hiding in our hotels, rather than getting out and getting to know you.

Now, important conclusion coming up here... you don't make friends with stereotypes, categorizations or national identies. You make friends with individuals. We as Americans need to grow a thicker hide and realize you find 'people' everywhere, home and abroad, and from my travels, we're all more alike then different.

Everyone who's feelings are hurt.... grow up.

[Ianofsmeg16]

Everyone who's feelings are hurt.... grow up.

I can't help but feel as though this comment was directed at me, if so, I take your advice. The reason iresponded sharply to GC's post is that the issue raised by him (Euros vs. US) is one of the only political arguments I get angry about. But I won't argue my case any longer because I will just embarress myself by getting into an argument with someone who is older, more experienced and is far better at arguing his case than me

[Don Corleone]

I can't help but feel as though this comment was directed at me, if so, I take your advice. The reason iresponded sharply to GC's post is that the issue raised by him (Euros vs. US) is one of the only political arguments I get angry about. But I won't argue my case any longer because I will just embarress myself by getting into an argument with someone who is older, more experienced and is far better at arguing his case than me

Actually, quite honestly, no. I didn't mean it at any one person in particular. Everyone seems to be taking this whole question way, way, WAY too seriously. No offense meant, amigo. Apologies for any given.

By the way, I suppose it would help calm you and King Malcom and a few of the other Brits down that as ludicrous as you'll find this, most Americans view the British Isles, including Manx, Jersey and all the other hinterlands as 'different' than the rest of Europe, like halfway between mainstream Europe and mainstream America. Usually, when Americans make sweeping generalizations (a bad idea in general) about Europeans, they're not talking about Bits, Irish, Welsh, Scots or anyone else that was part of the United Kingdom at one point or another.

[Tachikaze]

When I began at this forum many decades ago, I kept a low profile until people started writing things like: "people criticize America because they're jealous" (they meant envious) or they are ignorant of the "real" US (like post #27 here). I decided to chime in because I am a US citizen, born and raised on US pop culture in the heart of US suburbia. I have been to the four corners (except Florida) of the country and seen a lot in my 44 years.

My "anti-Americanism" has been well-known at The Org for a long time. I wonder if the forumers who label me that way ever consider why I criticize the US so much.

No one wants to hate their country. I received the same pro-US propanganda as anyone else. I wore a sun visor in red, white, and blue patriotic colors when I was ten. I wanted to paint the fire hydrant in front of our house red, white, and blue during the nation's bicentennial in 1976.

But, slowly, over the years, I learned to see the country objectively. It really helped when I spent time in Europe, Asia, and South America and saw the people and societies there*. I also teach ESL in San Diego and work closely with hundreds of foreign students every year. I married a Japanese.

Once I looked at the US more objectively, not as an American, but as a human, I became increasingly critical of it. The actions of the government; the people I see every day who indulge in food, conveniences, and entertainment like children out of control, and who prefer to live in illusions; the lack of moderation--everything done to extremes, against the very core of the lessons of wisdom of sages like Aristotle and Lao-Tse. I didn't decide to distance myself and become shameful of the US; the people and policies convinced me.

I like what Silver Knight said in his first post (#35). I think patriotic Americans are more ignorant of their own country than many outsiders. Just like the forest for the trees cliche. Posts #50, #20, and #51 are spot-on as well.

To be sure, the US has its strengths, mostly in the culture brought in by the underclasses and the progressive laws introduced by liberal politicians and popular movements (like consumer protection and civil rights). I love the US highway system, with its very informative signs and carefully tested, well-maintained roads. People here come up with great practical inventions, like T-shirts, sneakers, and White-Out.

But this society is seriously ill and paranoid. The ultra-nationalism and ultra-religious fervor (governments love a faith-based, rather than critically-thinking, populace) are symptoms of it. The bulk of the population is immature, gluttonous, and ignorant. They demand democracy as a vague ideal, but have no clue what is going on and can't be bothered to vote anyway. Meanwhile, the ones who did vote selected a man to be the national leader of the most powerful nation on earth because he's a "good Christian" and his "common man" image (however, he's a member of the priviledged elite--I told you Americans live in illusion).

It's hard to see that every day and be proud.



*In the US, generosity means providing a bed and food for a visitor. Fine. No complaints here. But, I have been to and heard about societies where generosity means giving up your own bed and meal for a visitor. That's generosity.

[Soulforged]

People, people...We all know why we hate america. It's because % 90 of americans are vampires the rest is trying to become one. Their leaders however are a mixture of reptil and bufalo with human brain. We all know that Vladimir Dracul took a trip to america 100 years ago and infected a lot of people there, it appears that Karl Robe is a descendant from one of those infected families or from Dracul himself. The war on Iraq wasn't either for oil, no it was for reasuring a constant supply of fresh blood.
This studies done on american people couldn't get the nature of Condoleeza Rice however, so we really don't know what she is yet.

[Alexanderofmacedon]

First of all, I'd like to say, I live in America and I love it here.

With that said though, I am a VERY strong liberal and I feel America has had many mistakes, but I think we've done right as well.

I look at it this way:

When a kid is really quiet no one hates the kid, but no one really loves him either. If a kid is really outgoing, people will love him, but also people will hate him. America is like the outgoing kid. We are absolutely hated by many, but there are those who love us.

My input anyway...

[Duke Malcolm]

Actually, quite honestly, no. I didn't mean it at any one person in particular. Everyone seems to be taking this whole question way, way, WAY too seriously. No offense meant, amigo. Apologies for any given.

By the way, I suppose it would help calm you and King Malcolm and a few of the other Brits down that as ludicrous as you'll find this, most Americans view the British Isles, including Manx, Jersey and all the other hinterlands as 'different' than the rest of Europe, like halfway between mainstream Europe and mainstream America. Usually, when Americans make sweeping generalizations (a bad idea in general) about Europeans, they're not talking about Brits, Irish, Welsh, Scots or anyone else that was part of the United Kingdom at one point or another.

Ahh, well that's alright then. I was provoked by comments that European colonialism was to blame for all the ills in the world, and since you nice American folks consider Britain different from Europe that might perhaps mean continental colonialism is to blame, and since I have little knowledge of that I cannot argue against it, but we all know how bad the Belgian Congo was...

[A.Saturnus]

Don't question our motives. You have no right to do that. Our actions have enabled your pathetic little countries to survive this long, and to prosper. Show some respect.

Well, our actions (wars, religious oppression etc.) have enabled your pathetic little country to exist in the first place. Show some respetc.

[Marcellus]

I suspect that one of the reasons America is disliked or hated in various parts of the world is its percieved hypocrisy on various issues, examples being Guantanamo Bay and supporting dictators if they are friendly towards the US.

[Beirut]

I suspect that one of the reasons America is disliked or hated in various parts of the world is its percieved hypocrisy on various issues, examples being Guantanamo Bay and supporting dictators if they are friendly towards the US.

What he said.

Although I consider myself a great fan and supporter of the US of A, I do find immense humour in the hypocrisy the US government puts forward.

All the while the the US was in bed with the Shah of Iran, the Chinese government, assorted South and Central American dictators, and various psychos, torturers, mass murderers, and nutbars the world over, we were all told to avoid Cuba like the plague because "Fidel isn't a very nice guy".

I'm sorry, but you would not only have to be brain dead to have bought that - you would have to be brain dead to think people would buy it.

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

Well, our actions (wars, religious oppression etc.) have enabled your pathetic little country to exist in the first place. Show some respetc.

yeah, Israel should show Germany some more respect too.



don't worry, only messing with you.

[A.Saturnus]

yeah, Israel should show Germany some more respect too.



don't worry, only messing with you.

Respetc!

[TheSilverKnight]

People should just ignore European Criticisms of America. They were criticizing us and hampering us even during the Korean War, when 90% of the troops, and nearly all of the funding was ours. They were doing it while we were dishing out billions of Dollars to rebuild Europe with the Marshal plan!

Don't question our motives. You have no right to do that. Our actions have enabled your pathetic little countries to survive this long, and to prosper. Show some respect.

And to take another point here, you think Europe has "pathetic" little countries? Well excuse me if England is the mother country which gave you a language to speak. Europe has been longer established than America has on the world stage, so please don't think you're better than us, because your country isn't even half as old as many of the ones in Europe are. What I have just seen there is the most centre-minded post I have probably ever seen. Like I said to STFS, Get Over Yourselves, and grow up.

[TheSilverKnight]

Would that we could go back in in time and let your poor Europeans kill eachother off. Would that we could back in time and let your continent rot after both world wars. Would that we could go back in time and simply let the communists take over Europe.

Woe is America, for leaving Europe intact.

I find myself offended slightly by this, but I respect your opinions, despite the fact I disagree with them. But the world wouldn't exactly be a better place with Europe gone, nor would it be with America gone.

Good grief. You know what's really funny? The ignorance on both sides of this issue.

I think you take Louis', Beirut's and Kongamato's arguments together and there you have it. More importantly, I think Soly had the best point in this thread so far.

First off, Silver Knight, when you describe us as the rudest, most arrogant bags of wind on the planet (and truthfully, I do actually know some Americans that fit that bill) you should realize that in general, if you ever actually meet a few of us and quit relying on TV and friends for your opinions, I think you'll find we tend to be a little more cloistered than most people, not through arrogance, but through simple insularism. We tend to be considerate and friendly, but generally, only when we actually know somebody.

Second, Gel Cube, SFTS, you know, making these jokes don't exactly help. Jokes are only funny when you consider your target audience. It's not funny if they think you're serious and you confirm the stereotypes you're trying to poke fun at.

All in all, I think a lot of Americans don't realize that the finger poking that gets sent our way goes on among just about everyone else. You have to realize, America is roughly the same size as Europe. Just travelling the length and breath of our own country is enough to keep your average Joe occupied for a lifetime. What's more, when we do come to visit, we don't receive the warmest of welcomes. Fact is, some Europeans do have a chip on their shoulder. Most don't, but the ones that do tend to be vocal enough that we feel very unwelcome and wind up hiding in our hotels, rather than getting out and getting to know you.

Now, important conclusion coming up here... you don't make friends with stereotypes, categorizations or national identies. You make friends with individuals. We as Americans need to grow a thicker hide and realize you find 'people' everywhere, home and abroad, and from my travels, we're all more alike then different.

Everyone who's feelings are hurt.... grow up.

To reply to Don Corleone: A good post, and I agree wholeheartedly with your points. And yes, I find a great deal of Americans to be nice people (since I have met quite a few Americans. I have actually been to the United States a few times.), but there are the people who make jokes, and do put out and make themselves seem like the very stereotypes people explain about, and to be honest, why? Are they just doing this to cause an argument, or do they wish to prove another point? And if the latter, then what point would it be? That we live up to the stereotypes you put out??? To me it does not make a lot of sense.

[Louis VI the Fat]

The world wouldn't exactly be a better place with Europe gone, nor would it be with America gone.

Spot on, mate.

[Don Corleone]

Why does anyone act like an ass? The reasons are as varied as the people themselves. But hey, let's all kick back and enjoy what we all have in common:
and, of course,