Why Hate America??

[Ianofsmeg16]

Everyone who's feelings are hurt.... grow up.

I can't help but feel as though this comment was directed at me, if so, I take your advice. The reason iresponded sharply to GC's post is that the issue raised by him (Euros vs. US) is one of the only political arguments I get angry about. But I won't argue my case any longer because I will just embarress myself by getting into an argument with someone who is older, more experienced and is far better at arguing his case than me

[Don Corleone]

I can't help but feel as though this comment was directed at me, if so, I take your advice. The reason iresponded sharply to GC's post is that the issue raised by him (Euros vs. US) is one of the only political arguments I get angry about. But I won't argue my case any longer because I will just embarress myself by getting into an argument with someone who is older, more experienced and is far better at arguing his case than me

Actually, quite honestly, no. I didn't mean it at any one person in particular. Everyone seems to be taking this whole question way, way, WAY too seriously. No offense meant, amigo. Apologies for any given.

By the way, I suppose it would help calm you and King Malcom and a few of the other Brits down that as ludicrous as you'll find this, most Americans view the British Isles, including Manx, Jersey and all the other hinterlands as 'different' than the rest of Europe, like halfway between mainstream Europe and mainstream America. Usually, when Americans make sweeping generalizations (a bad idea in general) about Europeans, they're not talking about Bits, Irish, Welsh, Scots or anyone else that was part of the United Kingdom at one point or another.

[Tachikaze]

When I began at this forum many decades ago, I kept a low profile until people started writing things like: "people criticize America because they're jealous" (they meant envious) or they are ignorant of the "real" US (like post #27 here). I decided to chime in because I am a US citizen, born and raised on US pop culture in the heart of US suburbia. I have been to the four corners (except Florida) of the country and seen a lot in my 44 years.

My "anti-Americanism" has been well-known at The Org for a long time. I wonder if the forumers who label me that way ever consider why I criticize the US so much.

No one wants to hate their country. I received the same pro-US propanganda as anyone else. I wore a sun visor in red, white, and blue patriotic colors when I was ten. I wanted to paint the fire hydrant in front of our house red, white, and blue during the nation's bicentennial in 1976.

But, slowly, over the years, I learned to see the country objectively. It really helped when I spent time in Europe, Asia, and South America and saw the people and societies there*. I also teach ESL in San Diego and work closely with hundreds of foreign students every year. I married a Japanese.

Once I looked at the US more objectively, not as an American, but as a human, I became increasingly critical of it. The actions of the government; the people I see every day who indulge in food, conveniences, and entertainment like children out of control, and who prefer to live in illusions; the lack of moderation--everything done to extremes, against the very core of the lessons of wisdom of sages like Aristotle and Lao-Tse. I didn't decide to distance myself and become shameful of the US; the people and policies convinced me.

I like what Silver Knight said in his first post (#35). I think patriotic Americans are more ignorant of their own country than many outsiders. Just like the forest for the trees cliche. Posts #50, #20, and #51 are spot-on as well.

To be sure, the US has its strengths, mostly in the culture brought in by the underclasses and the progressive laws introduced by liberal politicians and popular movements (like consumer protection and civil rights). I love the US highway system, with its very informative signs and carefully tested, well-maintained roads. People here come up with great practical inventions, like T-shirts, sneakers, and White-Out.

But this society is seriously ill and paranoid. The ultra-nationalism and ultra-religious fervor (governments love a faith-based, rather than critically-thinking, populace) are symptoms of it. The bulk of the population is immature, gluttonous, and ignorant. They demand democracy as a vague ideal, but have no clue what is going on and can't be bothered to vote anyway. Meanwhile, the ones who did vote selected a man to be the national leader of the most powerful nation on earth because he's a "good Christian" and his "common man" image (however, he's a member of the priviledged elite--I told you Americans live in illusion).

It's hard to see that every day and be proud.



*In the US, generosity means providing a bed and food for a visitor. Fine. No complaints here. But, I have been to and heard about societies where generosity means giving up your own bed and meal for a visitor. That's generosity.

[Proletariat]

*In the US, generosity means providing a bed and food for a visitor. Fine. No complaints here. But, I have been to and heard about societies where generosity means giving up your own bed and meal for a visitor. That's generosity.

Sorry to hijack, but travelocity has never pointed me towards anything like this, even when I sort lodging fares by price. Will you help me plan my next vacation? I wouldn't want to waste any alcohol/food/car rental money on unnecessary hotel fees.

[Tachikaze]

Sorry to hijack, but travelocity has never pointed me towards anything like this, even when I sort lodging fares by price. Will you help me plan my next vacation? I wouldn't want to waste any alcohol/food/car rental money on unnecessary hotel fees.

Try visiting people's homes, rather than hotels. Although, I recommend staying only if invited. Even then, I wouldn't put anyone out of their food and bed, so I personally haven't had to inconvenience anyone to that degree. However, I have friends who have been given such hospitality.

[Soulforged]

People, people...We all know why we hate america. It's because % 90 of americans are vampires the rest is trying to become one. Their leaders however are a mixture of reptil and bufalo with human brain. We all know that Vladimir Dracul took a trip to america 100 years ago and infected a lot of people there, it appears that Karl Robe is a descendant from one of those infected families or from Dracul himself. The war on Iraq wasn't either for oil, no it was for reasuring a constant supply of fresh blood.
This studies done on american people couldn't get the nature of Condoleeza Rice however, so we really don't know what she is yet.

[Alexanderofmacedon]

First of all, I'd like to say, I live in America and I love it here.

With that said though, I am a VERY strong liberal and I feel America has had many mistakes, but I think we've done right as well.

I look at it this way:

When a kid is really quiet no one hates the kid, but no one really loves him either. If a kid is really outgoing, people will love him, but also people will hate him. America is like the outgoing kid. We are absolutely hated by many, but there are those who love us.

My input anyway...

[AntiochusIII]

One of the reasons why some hate the US, is shown very well by a few US posters in this thread, including that of the first.Of course, that doesn't make hating the US any better.

But a single spoiled fish in a basket of hundreds can spoil all of them. A single fat, arrogant, loud, ignorant, white, protestant, Puritan, rich, corporate, capitalistic "Joe" is enough to confirm one's prejudices, ignoring a thousand of those who are not "Joe." The key, though, is prejudice, not Joe.

Soly, gimme a tissue paper.

[AntiochusIII]

How can Europeans claim a few bad american fish spoil the whole lot, when it is even worse in Europe? Mobs of people who have been indocrinated from birth towards utopian socialist crap that will never work. People who seem to be inherantly ungrateful, thinking they are still on top of the world. Europe talks the talk, but lack the balls to walk the walk, while America does both and gets no credit for it. America is not like that because it's people are lazy, or innefficient, or sit on their ass all day laughing while Africans starve. We're where we are because we take control. Europe is a leach on America's greatness.

Once again I put forth my argument that it doesn't matter what Europeans have to say about America. As a rule (and although there are exceptions to every rule, they remain neglected exceptions none the less), Europeans are indoctrinated from birth to accept US Aid while at the same time plotting how they can use that aid to hurt us. Indoctrinated from birth to hate us, to see US as Sub-Human. So anything they say regarding America can safely be tossed aside as bias, and unworthy of note.

I...truly doubt that is the case.

You see, you are generalizing Europe--a diverse continent of many nations and many histories--the way some Europeans generalize the United States. And your attacks on it makes no sense whatsoever.

Generalizations are often not very nice. The mobs do that, not the mages and the scholars. The Ivory tower sees far.

And I have yet to see a satisfactory justification from you of America's need to be superior.

On a side point, I am not European; I am in the United States, immigrated two years ago, and before you ask, legally, of course.

Also, you missed my point that prejudice, not Joe the spoiled fish, is the key to the image. What forms that prejudice, though, is a larger subject, and I am a lazy ass not too bothered to analyze and define such subjects right now.

[AntiochusIII]

See my posts in the other thread as to why Leftist americans, even Immigrant Americans who happen to be Leftist, are inherantly against America's freedoms. Such a motive cannot produce unbias arguments.

Erm...is that indirect ad hominem?

Nevermind, see my post in the other thread for why it is irrational to claim as such, and let's get back onto the topic.

[Tachikaze]

One of the reasons why some hate the US, is shown very well by a few US posters in this thread, including that of the first.Of course, that doesn't make hating the US any better.

But a single spoiled fish in a basket of hundreds can spoil all of them. A single fat, arrogant, loud, ignorant, white, protestant, Puritan, rich, corporate, capitalistic "Joe" is enough to confirm one's prejudices, ignoring a thousand of those who are not "Joe." The key, though, is prejudice, not Joe.

Soly, gimme a tissue paper.

I admit I'm guilty of this selective perception myself. I see a car on a US highway with 20 US flags and jingoistic slogans or fundamentalist Christian tripe and forget that there are 50 cars around it without such symbols.

For all you European critics of the US, I just want to point out that there is a significant portion of the population here that resists the stupidity of the people I mentioned in Post #65 and policies of the Bush Regime. They are largely pooled in places like Boston, New York, Washington DC, Minnesota/Wisconsin, parts of the West Coast, and Hawaii.

For every ignorant, gluttonous American, there's a critically-thinking, compassionate, and well-educated one. Well, I don't know if the ratio os one-to-one, but there are many anyway.

I hope, someday, they will have greater effect on US policy.

[Banquo's Ghost]

For every ignorant, gluttonous American, there's a critically-thinking, compassionate, and well-educated one. Well, I don't know if the ratio os one-to-one, but there are many anyway.

In my experience as an Irish-European visiting and living in the States, the ratio is much, much higher in favour of the latter (compassionate etc). I would agree with your list (excepting DC, which like many capitals has some deeply unpleasant people in it) and add the mid-west, most southern states and of course, Texas. (Florida is a bit wierd).

Americans have many idiosyncracies, and in many ways reflect the very best and worst of the countries and races they came from. But I have found most to be unfailingly generous.

The American people are scared at the moment, as the world which they believed they were insulated from has shown itself to be nastier than they hoped. When a nation with the capabilities that the USA has gets scared, more than a few trees fall over in the storm. A great strength of the US is its idealism - and this is a weakness too, not least when one's ideals are punctured. The concern as to 'Why hate America' is part of this.

There's no need to be scared, because America has friends, dear friends in Europe and elsewhere. Sometimes friendship means having to say hard things, like 'you're wrong'. And sometimes it means standing together. To American ears, European criticism sometimes sounds harsh and cruel. That's our fault for not understanding our audience, because we are much nastier to our own politicians and peoples - European debates are very fierce, we're just used to being inflammatory to get our point across, since for most of history we just invaded each other, and we miss it.

Unfortunately, politicians of all flavours are using this sense of fear and confusion to their own ends. They are doing this in the UK and Europe, and throughout the world. Fundamental rights are being stripped away, while we're fibbed to about "threats".

As I look at it from across the pond, the US is having a big internal debate about what it stands for. Many American citizens are asking questions of the wider world - this thread is a good example, even if there is an injured tone. That strikes me as the sign of a strong and concerned democracy, and of a people who in the main, still believe in the ideals of their country. This debate won't be over in a month or even a couple of presidential terms. For a start, it needs a Democratic party to decide what it believes in, just as real debate in the UK needs a strong Conservative party to decide what it stands for.

[BigTex]

Ahh, well that's alright then. I was provoked by comments that European colonialism was to blame for all the ills in the world, and since you nice American folks consider Britain different from Europe that might perhaps mean continental colonialism is to blame, and since I have little knowledge of that I cannot argue against it, but we all know how bad the Belgian Congo was...

Yes when refering to Europe I usually do not mean the UK. I consider it seperate from the continent, its it's own special continent Britian. Britian has done quite alot to help their previous colonies, look at india one of the worlds fastest growing economies. If you notice my comment about the human experimentation was refering to Danish colony. Sorry if I offended you too much DM, European hatred is just a raw nerve. I dislike them not taking their fair share of the blame.

Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube
See my posts in the other thread as to why Leftist americans, even Immigrant Americans who happen to be Leftist, are inherantly against America's freedoms. Such a motive cannot produce unbias arguments.

Mr. Jello Cube we are a nation built by immigrants. And will be continued to be built by immigrants, we are the fastest growing 1st world country. Also Haruchai this debate has been going on (violently raging at some points) for well over a hundred and fifty years. Things don't get resolved very fast here, they get debated over again and again till the horse is all but rotted and turned to dust. A good example of the current debates is 3 people siting at a table, ones a 350+ lb women chowing down on a couple of whoppers. The others a smoker he's smoking right now. The third is giving the smoker a ration of s**t about how it can kill him, while carefully not mentioning to the obese women how the whopper is going to kill her, and faster I might add.

Also Mr. Tiberius there is far more oil in Alaska and the Gulf coast (possibly one of the worlds largest supplies of oil in the Gulf) oil wasnt even part of the debate for going to war with Iraq unless you happen to be french.

arrogant, loud, ignorant, white, protestant, Puritan, rich, corporate, capitalistic

Depending on where you go, they are hated by the vast majority of the American Populous. Though south carolina might be different (think they forget what happened to the last states that wanted to sucede from the union.)

But it is still fashionable to criticise USA for even catching a flu.

Very very true Mr. LeftEyeNine, I'm still expecting to see the U.S.A. blamed for the bird flu. But maybe the conspiracy wacko's have already gone down that rabbit hole, bioengineered virus to destroy China before it becomes to powerful?

[Soulforged]

Ok I see that my joke didn't helped to distract the heat here.
I don't really think that it's for their people that the rest of the world hates USA. All countries have that kind of people, if you ever visit Buenos Aires you'll notice how "proud" many are of decadence and how they treat extrangers (specially the traders in the centers). The problem with USA is that this kind of people receive much more notice and the government too, it's not wonder however because that's what gives money. Besides such a powerful contry has many interests around the world it's not that rare that they "stick their noses" into everything, and this helps a lot to bring up those hated faces and to increase the hatred directly. If you ask me I don't like that idea of "manifest desteny" but that's just me perhaps...

[Leet Eriksson]

I wanna be honest, when i joined the .org i was just as anti-american as your run of the mill middle eastern types who blame everything else on anyone.

When i see my old posts i feel embarrassed

But people grow to love the US over-time, appreciate them for what they are... and uh alot of other things. So here is to world peace and lets all smoke the peace pipe.

<3

P.S:i'm stoned on the bong, so don't mind me, just feeling like a hippy at the moment.

[Duke Malcolm]

Actually, quite honestly, no. I didn't mean it at any one person in particular. Everyone seems to be taking this whole question way, way, WAY too seriously. No offense meant, amigo. Apologies for any given.

By the way, I suppose it would help calm you and King Malcolm and a few of the other Brits down that as ludicrous as you'll find this, most Americans view the British Isles, including Manx, Jersey and all the other hinterlands as 'different' than the rest of Europe, like halfway between mainstream Europe and mainstream America. Usually, when Americans make sweeping generalizations (a bad idea in general) about Europeans, they're not talking about Brits, Irish, Welsh, Scots or anyone else that was part of the United Kingdom at one point or another.

Ahh, well that's alright then. I was provoked by comments that European colonialism was to blame for all the ills in the world, and since you nice American folks consider Britain different from Europe that might perhaps mean continental colonialism is to blame, and since I have little knowledge of that I cannot argue against it, but we all know how bad the Belgian Congo was...