Favourite strategy game of all time

[econ21]

With all the discussion about the forthcoming M2TW, I've started to wonder - what do people here look for in a strategy game? It seems like some want a blistering AI, others historical authenticity etc. Perhaps the best way to identify this is to consider what do people consider great strategy games?

To narrow it down to something comparable to Total War, please rule out "tactical" strategy games where you command individual soldiers or characters. Some of my favourites are those kind of squad-based games (X-com, Jagged Alliance 2) but that may be because they are close to role-playing games which is a genre I love. Hardcore historical wargames, traditional RTSs, civilisation type games etc all qualify though.

Personally, I find Total War games rather hard to beat - especially RTW mods such as RTR. If forced to choose at this moment in time, I'd probably go with Europa Barbarorum, even though it's still a beta.

Beyond that, I really liked the Panzer General games - I consider them like Total War games, in that they were historical wargames lite. They set up historical campaigns with lots of period flavour but had fun gameplay that was somewhat abstracted from that of a hardcore simulation.

I also find things to admire - particularly the challenge from the AI - in turn-based empire games like Civ4 and Imperialism2.

If I were to identify common elements in my favourite strategy games, they would be:
(1) historical flavour with a fair amount of detail and complexity (lots of units or techs etc);
(2) the hook of a long campaign, where individual decisions have lasting consequences (upgrading units, gaining experience, investing in the economy or technology etc);
(3) a cerebral game speed (turns or a pause button required);
(4) at least moderately challenging gameplay (e.g. must have interesting trade-offs and choices in the combat and economic models etc);
(5) fairly brisk gameplay - beer and pretzels - (I want gaming to be exciting, not slow and agonising).

[BelgradeWar]

(1) Close Combat
(2) RTW/RTR
(3) EU II
(4) Blitzkrieg
(5) The Operational Art of War

[Fragony]

(1) Sacrifice
(2) Medieval
(3) Alpha Centauri
(4) X-com
(5) Homeworld

[frogbeastegg]

Difficult question to answer. Many games get parts of what I want, but none ever get all, or even 4/5s. I find that as much as I like the challenge and options of a game like civ 4, I yearn for a better historical atmosphere and setting, such as in EUII (actually, I prefer medieval or classical settings. EUII gets to be the example because it does its historical ‘thing’ really well). Or I want something which can be picked up and played in many different ways with many different factions, like Knights of Honour. Or something with loads of diplomatic options, options which actually work logically for once, such as … er, no game has managed that yet, not completely. Or full scale real-time battlefield combat, as in STW (the best of the TW series for this IMO). Or something with good atmosphere, again like STW. Or something which can be played in shorter bursts rather than hour long sessions minimum. Or something was plenty of depth.

But two are always very important to me: challenge, and depth. If a game has those two the usually it has a chance with me, even if it has a setting I don’t like, for example space, and/or lacks in one or more of the other areas.

[Kraxis]

(1) Sacrifice
(2) Medieval
(3) Alpha Centauri
(4) X-com
(5) Homeworld

Yey!!!

(1) STW, you just felt like a Japanese Warlord.
(2) MTW/PG series
(3) Hearts of Iron II
(4) Close Combat
(5) HOMEWORLD by far!

[TinCow]

Hmm.... I think the Civ series easily has me for the total number of hours of my life sucked away. Civ I, II, Alpha Centaura, III and IV, I count ALL of them. Other games that have really impressed me over the years though:

MTW/RTW
HOMM2
Close Combat
Battle Isle/Historyline
Castles/Castles II

[TinCow]

Oops, forgot MOO2.

[screwtype]

Beyond that, I really liked the Panzer General games - I consider them like Total War games, in that they were historical wargames lite. They set up historical campaigns with lots of period flavour but had fun gameplay that was somewhat abstracted from that of a hardcore simulation.

I also find things to admire - particularly the challenge from the AI - in turn-based empire games like Civ4 and Imperialism2.

The Panzer General series was kinda fun, in a not-too-demanding sort of way. I quite enjoyed the first one in the series I bought, Panzer General 3D. But ultimately it just wasn't challenging or varied enough for me to put it up there as one of the greats. I think what it really lacked, more than anything, was an opportunity to do some defending. Every scenario is basically the same - capture the three or four towns on the map. Gets a bit old after a while.

The sequal to PG 3D, Scorched Earth, was not as good in my opinion. Less well balanced scenarios and units.

Civ4 would absolutely not be amongst my best, in fact I prefer Civ3 and will probably start a Civ3 campaign again soon.

Imperialism II is a great little game, I always have a campaign going, and there's barely a week goes by I don't put a little time into it. In my current campaign I thought I was about to breeze past everybody when suddenly the three major powers declared war on me at once and blockaded my port! That often happens early in a campaign but rarely in the later stages. It's nice to still be suprised by a game when you think you know it so well.

I have iron man rules for Imp II - the most important being, no trade with a major power unless you really need the item, it's too easy to get the big guys onside with a bit of friendly trade. Other than that, I always pick the weakest power and play at a difficulty rating of 362, just a bit short of the max difficulty of 400. I find at 400 it's just a bit too long and boring trying to build up your infrastructure to a reasonable level.

But apart from that, I don't really know, I know I've played some great strategy games but I never seem to be able to remember them. Age of Wonders II was okay but again a bit lacking in challenge. But I'd still rate Lords of the Realm II (Amiga version) as one of the best, building up your infrastructure and carefully husbanding your population was a blast in that game, it all made such good sense and there always seemed to be something to do. I wish someone would take that concept and bring it up to date. IMO, a Lords of the Realm II type campaign with TW type battles would be pretty close to gaming heaven for mine...

[econ21]

The Panzer General series was kinda fun, in a not-too-demanding sort of way. I quite enjoyed the first one in the series I bought, Panzer General 3D.

Well, to be honest the series was dead by then, IMO. I bought PG3D, loaded it up for an hour or so, then never looked at it again - very slow, too minute scale etc. Scorched Earth was supposed to be better, but I was not tempted. I'd recommend you try out some of the earlier ones - unfortunately, the company went belly up, so telling you how to get hold of them would be against forum rules.

The first Panzer General took several years of my life. It has linked scenarios that are vastly bigger than those in the PG3D series. For example, in the German invasion of Norway, you fight on a map that covers nearly all the country and have two sea-born invasion groups, facing the Royal Navy and tough terrain/weather. The pre-Barbarossa Balkans scenario was another standout - you have the Italians struggling stalled trying to break out of Albania while German battlegroups flank the Greeks from Bulgaria, overrunning a British expeditionary force and also conquering a vast Yugoslavia. The combat is very simplified, like PG3D, but it arguably captures the history at some higher level - I played a Balkans campaign in the much more realistic Operational Art of War and it played out just like PG1s, except it was much less fun. The ultimate problem with PG1, however, was that it became unbalanced over the campaign - the experience and money (prestige) you acquired allowed you to vastly outmatch the enemy 3-4 scenarios into a campaign. You can try to offset that using mods and editors, but sequels largely solved that balancing problem.

On the other PG games:

Allied General lacked something indefinable - it just never grabbed me.

Star General was supposed to be a flop -did not touch it.

Fantasy General: is superb, especially the music.

Pacific General: rather ugly, but excellent - at least the Japanese campaign. It's like the PG1 blitzkrieg all over again, only this time on bicycles. Some of the scenarios in the campaign are truly epic - e.g. a Japanese invasion of India that makes Norway look like a small scale training exercise.

Panzer General2: first graphics update but starts to compromise on the epic scale. For example, in the Norway scenario, you don't have the naval aspect, the landings etc, you just fight your way up part of the central (Lillehammer) valley. Also has a big bug that reduces the value of infantry. But still rather good and probably the PG game that most folk still play (lots of user made campaigns and scenario). From a graphics point of view, it is not too retro.

People's General: pretty decent updating of PG2 to contemporary (hypothetical) warfare.

As I said, these were arguably the Total War games of their time. Lashings of historical flavour (although ultimately absurdly ahistorical if taken literally) combined with very fun gameplay.

[screwtype]

Thanks for the info Simon. Maybe I'll take a look at PG2 then. It should be good and cheap by now

[Fragony]

Am I the only one who has played Sacrifice? This game should be loved to death on a forum with people with exquisite taste such as yourselves, such an overlooked masterpiece. Brilliant storytelling, brilliant characters, brilliant humour, brilliant mechanics and brilliant graphics(ok not anymore) and the best music to ever grace a videogame.

[Avicenna]

Rome: Total War wins hands down.

Nothing else is even close in my point of view.

[Kekvit Irae]

Alpha Centauri
Civilization II - Test of Time
MTW: VI (given)
Age of Empires II: Age of Kings (with expansion pack)
Star Wars: Rebellion
Romance of the Three Kingdoms 8 and 10