Appointed Chancellor rules out democracy!

**InsaneApache** · 03-10-2006, 11:09

It must be nice to be Mr. Blairs best mate. You get handed a powerful job, ostensibly more powerful than the office of the Prime Minister. You get to help formulate policy, pass laws and wear a frock, stockings and a wig!

Now this unelected Scotsman has decided that the English do not and should not have a Parliament. Nice. A remarkable politician, a man who, when practising as a barrister, advised British Nuclear Fuels in cases against leukaemia victims, British Coal against trade unions over pit closures and sent his four children to public schools. A pillar of New Labour in effect.

The Lord Chancellor, Lord Falconer, is set to strongly reject the idea of an English parliament, in a speech to a conference on devolution.

Delicious irony.

linky

Yet another 'I know best' scenario from an appointee.

**Banquo's Ghost** · 03-10-2006, 11:33

I'm interested to know if there is much popular support for a federal United Kingdom or conversely, dissolving the current devolved assemblies of Scotland and Wales? I believe these are the only two logical developments for the current half-hearted constitutional mish-mash that the Lord Chancellor seems to support.

Didn't the British government lose a referendum on devolved local government for the North east that demonstrated a lack of enthusiasm for yet another layer of politicians?

**English assassin** · 03-10-2006, 11:51

I heard his interview on Today this morning, and I must say I nearly spat my toast out to hear this bloody Scot saying that the English were absolutely delighted with the fact that legislation on the health and education services in England were only being passed because of the massed ranks of Labour's scottish MPs. All of who know very well there was no chance of their own voters having to put up with foundation schools or top up fees for universities since that is all devolved to Edinburgh for Scotland.

Well here's one Englishman who feels very strongly indeed that scottish MPs should have the same rights to vote on English matters that English MPs have on Scottish matters, no more, no less. We don't need an English parliament and more blood sucking politicians, we just need English MPs to be able to form themselves into an English Grand Committee, in the way that Scots MPs used to do for Scotland.

As for the Scottish parliament and Welsh assemby, if the Scots and the Welsh want more layabouts battening onto them at public expense that's their business IMHO. I'm perfectly happy for them to organise their own affairs if only they would extend me the same courtesy. Personally I'd prefer one national parliament, but Labour have given the other nations the pornography of this childish nationalism (for their own electoral advantage) and if that's the way its going to be I want the same for England.

**Idaho** · 03-10-2006, 12:28

This devolution is a bodge. Personally I would like the UK to be broken up into 8 or 9 states which had full legislative power over everything.

Localised democracy!

**Ja'chyra** · 03-10-2006, 12:33

I'm tempted to say that England is getting what she deserves for treating Scotland like a guinea pig and retarded relative for so many years, but to be honest I quite agree with you. Either we should have four local parliaments and one central for deciding the overeaching issues or we should just have one.

**rory_20_uk** · 03-10-2006, 12:49

A poor, backward and downright rebellious relative. One who spent a long time flirting with the French many years back...

What the hell are Scottish MPs doing in Westminster? Get the sods out of there. Ditto Welsh and Irish.

I agree. There are two states of affiars:

1) We are a union. Power is in Westminster. End Of Story.
2) We are something else.
Either a very small federation with a total of 4 parliments - one for each and another centeral lot, or seperate countries.

Oooh, tough one that!
Bye! Thanks for all the... Erm, thanks!! Good luck by yourself - we'll stop bankrolling you now.

The areas used to be useful in previous centuries for various reasons. Now that time is passed. These fringe areas should know to keep their mouths shut considering the money they get given. But no like spoilt brats they come back for as much as they can get.

My assessment is that we have nothing to loose and everything to gain. If I'm wrong I'm pleased to listen.

**JAG** · 03-10-2006, 14:05

Originally Posted by Idaho

This devolution is a bodge. Personally I would like the UK to be broken up into 8 or 9 states which had full legislative power over everything.

Localised democracy!

I completely agree, I think the best system for the UK would be to have a very strongly federalist system, it is one thing the US system does very well.

As to this matter I have two points, firstly I don't think an English Parliament is necessary, Westminster is the parliament for England and on a lot of issues the rest of the UK. I too don't have a problem with Scottish and Welsh MP's voting on legislation which only effects England.

The reasons for the second point is not only does legislation aimed at 'just England' actually involve Scotland and Wales - and NI - but we are a union and unless we are going towards a federal system or a breaking up of the union, all MPs at westminster should vote on all bills made there.

'English only' bills directly effect Scotland and Scottish people because for instance, if top up fees are introduced - or otherwise - in England it has a direct impact on Scottish universities, as it stands they are likely to gain more applicants, etc. Just like if there was a bill giving everyone who owned a house in England £1m quid, I bet it would effect people in Scotland too, as you would likely see a lot of them moving down south. All this is with the incessant demand for English MP only voting in Westminster, is a thinly veiled attempt by the Tories to reduce Labours majority and significantly weaken it's electorial position. Scottish and Welsh seats have already been reduced, it is not as if there is a huge amount of them, if the Tories did well in Scotland would we really be seeing these arguments put forward? I am damn sure that the only Tory Scottish MP votes on 'English only' matters, it is double standards by a desperate party.

**Taffy_is_a_Taff** · 03-10-2006, 16:26

Originally Posted by English assassin

Well here's one Englishman who feels very strongly indeed that scottish MPs should have the same rights to vote on English matters that English MPs have on Scottish matters, no more, no less. We don't need an English parliament and more blood sucking politicians, we just need English MPs to be able to form themselves into an English Grand Committee, in the way that Scots MPs used to do for Scotland.

As for the Scottish parliament and Welsh assemby, if the Scots and the Welsh want more layabouts battening onto them at public expense that's their business IMHO. I'm perfectly happy for them to organise their own affairs if only they would extend me the same courtesy. Personally I'd prefer one national parliament, but Labour have given the other nations the pornography of this childish nationalism (for their own electoral advantage) and if that's the way its going to be I want the same for England.

One of the reasons that the Scots and the Welsh tend to be pro devolution is that the English MPs dominate Westminster. This means that the English MPs always used to decide on policies for Scotland and Wales rather than the representatives of Scotland and Wales. It's basically the same as you getting angry about a certain appointed Scot and Labour's dominance in Westminster increasingly relying on the Welsh and Scottish fiefdoms of Labour.

I'm not particularily happy about you English getting upset but I hope that you now have some understanding of how frustrating the previous settlement was.

**English assassin** · 03-10-2006, 18:07

One of the reasons that the Scots and the Welsh tend to be pro devolution is that the English MPs dominate Westminster.

Yeah, you'd think the Scots getting the Poll Tax a year before England was up there with the potato famine the amount we hear about it (not from you personally)

Well that's democracy, we'll be needing different parliaments for black people and pensioners and people whose surname is Smith at this rate. Still, as I said, if Scotland and Wales want more politicians that's their business, so long as they don't vote on English matters

**Taffy_is_a_Taff** · 03-10-2006, 18:12

Originally Posted by English assassin

Yeah, you'd think the Scots getting the Poll Tax a year before England was up there with the potato famine the amount we hear about it (not from you personally)

Poll tax: yep, I'm sick of hearing that line too

Still, as I said, if Scotland and Wales want more politicians that's their business, so long as they don't vote on English matters

That's fine as long as the English ones don't vote on ours (which in Wales' case they still tend to do as the assembly doesn't yet have decent powers).