Unit: Zweihanders

[ivoignob]

I am not a medieval warfare expert. That's why I ask now: In MTW days everybody complained, that actually units, using swords as their primary weapons, were very rare. Now, as we have this nice zweihander everybody is accepting it. I am a little bit confused What's up with these zweihanders? Also, is this something like a man-at-arm?

(No bashing, only question)

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Its a bit different to guys with just swords and shields. Mo'fo's with Longswords were fairly common in northern Europe.

[A.Saturnus]

I am not a medieval warfare expert. That's why I ask now: In MTW days everybody complained, that actually units, using swords as their primary weapons, were very rare. Now, as we have this nice zweihander everybody is accepting it. I am a little bit confused What's up with these zweihanders? Also, is this something like a man-at-arm?

(No bashing, only question)

Well, the swordsmen we saw in MTW as common footsoldiers weren't historically correct. Most footmen were commoners and couldn't afford heavy armor or expansive weapons like swords. But the Zweihänders were a developement of the 15th century to counter pikes. Due to the prevalence of pikes and the scarceness of heavy war horses in that time many knights chose to fight afoot. Some joined mercenary companies and then usually fought as Zweihänders.

[screwtype]

Well, the swordsmen we saw in MTW as common footsoldiers weren't historically correct. Most footmen were commoners and couldn't afford heavy armor or expansive weapons like swords. But the Zweihänders were a developement of the 15th century to counter pikes. Due to the prevalence of pikes and the scarceness of heavy war horses in that time many knights chose to fight afoot. Some joined mercenary companies and then usually fought as Zweihänders.

How about that. Because I always thought two handed swords were basically ceremonial weapons.

I guess the swords were extra long so they could cut off pike heads without getting too close? Not a job I would much fancy myself though, even with a suit of armour.

[A.Saturnus]

How about that. Because I always thought two handed swords were basically ceremonial weapons.

I guess the swords were extra long so they could cut off pike heads without getting too close? Not a job I would much fancy myself though, even with a suit of armour.

They were not all ceremonial weapons. I have a reproduction of a Landsknecht-Zweihänder and it's rather plain. Not something you'd use for a ceremony.

I guess a long heavy sword is more usefull against pikes. Not an easy job indeed, that's why they were paid double.

[Watchman]

Looks nice otherwise, but I think the Zweihander is a bit anachronistic. That type of very large two-handed sword was mainly used in the pikeman armies of Renaissance as an "assault weapon" against pike thickets (and to oppose other such shock troops, natch; halberds were at least as popular in that role too), whereas the very widely used long-, bastard- and "great" swords of the Late Middle Ages (to which period the man's armour points; he certainly lacks the eye-watering gaudiness of the Landsknecht) were rather different beasts.

The sword typology of the ARMA, although not perfect, explains the issue fairly well.

Parts of his armour design (such as an apparently complete lack of solid shoulder guards, and the upper arm plates going under the mail sleeves) also look a little odd, but not excessively so. People tried some pretty crazy schemes after all, and often weren't in the position to be excessively picky.

[A.Saturnus]

Looks nice otherwise, but I think the Zweihander is a bit anachronistic. That type of very large two-handed sword was mainly used in the pikeman armies of Renaissance as an "assault weapon" against pike thickets

Why would that be anachronistic?

[Watchman]

'Cause he otherwise looks like a late-medieval MAA kitted for foot combat, not a 1500s Doppelsoldner shock trooper. The type of armour and the type of sword are from too different periods (and contexts) for me to be wholly comfortable with.