Theoretical Draft

[Ice]

Now, this is all hypothetical. Imagine you are between the age of 18-25. I use this age because that is the draft age for the USA, and I'm not sure on other countries ages. Your country has just declared war on another country. Your country's current military strength is not sufficient for the upcoming war. They require additonal manpower and require a draft.

You recieve a letter in the mail, saying you've been drafted. What is your reaction?

[Big_John]

i'd need to know my options in the military (would i be able to be an officer, for example) and the penalties for not showing up for the draft.

[Ice]

i'd need to know my options in the military (would i be able to be an officer, for example) and the penalties for not showing up for the draft.

Ok. Your rank would be based on your education and an evaluation of yourself. The penalty for not showing up would be jail time.

[Big_John]

ok, well, i'm pretty well educated and whatnot. so , depending on the nature of the war (who we are attacking/why we are attacking them), i'd go with either option 2 or 3.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

It would depend on the war, I'd have to think it over carefully. I voted 1 because that's closest. I don't care to be a part of a country that attacks another country in a major war that I consider unjust. If it's a just war I'd go for it. I can't understand someone who'd blindly join because it's their "duty".

[Lemur]

I'm too old now, but when I turned 18 I turned in my Selective Service card, and I knew what it meant. And I wouldn't sign something like that if I didn't intend to honor it.

[Ironside]

Now, this is all hypothetical. Imagine you are between the age of 18-25. I use this age because that is the draft age for the USA, and I'm not sure on other countries ages. Your country has just been declared war upon by another country. Your country's current military strength is not sufficient for the upcoming war. They require additonal manpower and require a draft.

You recieve a letter in the mail, saying you've been drafted. What is your reaction?

Swear, complain and draw memories from my previous military service I had due to the increased threat from that other country (in reality I didn't need to do it due to the current relaxed drafting, because the lack of enemies), then I would serve.

You see, the scandinavic countries is quite different compared to the US in this issue.
Here the draft is a fact and during the cold war "every guy" had done some kind of military service and this still lingers enough to make the same system re-appear if the situation is deemed neccissery, with the difference that it would most likely involve "everyone" this time.

[Kagemusha]

Ironside is right. Here its a citizen´s duty to protect his country against foreign attacks. In Finland only certain medical conditions leave you out of the army. So this staff sergeant in reserve would be shipped in, in the case war would break out.

[Paul Peru]

We have a draft in Norway. (it may be on its last legs)
As a conscientious objector, I served 16 months of civilian service in lieu of 12 months in the armed forces. In case of war, I'd called on to do humanitarian work or provide some other vital service to keep society functioning. That's what I'd do.

[_Martyr_]

I disagree with all you people calling soly a coward. Read Sean O'Caseys play The Plough And the Stars, it examines the the themes of loyalty and duty on various levels; duty to one's self, one's family, one's community, one's country, and to one's ideals.

Ultimately I personally dont put too much weight on the notion of a nation. In my humble opinion, Im a human first and formost, with a family and friends and people I love, that just so happens to have been born where and when I was. Nothing makes me more nauseous than teary eyed patriotism and blind nationalism. Take a step back, had the fluke of birth happened in any other way, you would feel exactly the same way about where ever else you were born. Not exaclty a very strong basis for an undying love, devotion and preparedness to kill and to die for an abstract ideal that just devides humanity.

Dont get me wrong, I am fond of where I live, the people and places here are very dear to me, but as a whole I dont really buy the broader, encompassing, almost devine entity of "Ireland" or indeed any nation. Its all just a result of violant human history - wars, murder, assisnations, plunder, slavery and division - not something I am particularly proud of. In short there's nothing at all sacred about a "country", no more than I dont particularly feel excessive loyalty to my bank, ISP or College as institutions, I dont feel that much loyalty to the State. Its the people I care about, not the institution that was created to govern them. I dont have kids yet, but when I do, my loyalty will be squarely to them, not too the State, what good of a father would I be to them dead for an abstract political cause?

Based purely on a willingness to fight a politically motivated war for this abstract (and imo) rather counterproductive construction of modern pollitical and millitary consolodation and centralisation I would dodge a draft. On the other hand, not all wars are politically motivated (I mean this in the sense that Iraq II was certainly to some extent motivated by the strategic value of the large oil reserves, and indeed Iraq's location, and lots of other political factors, not really by an honest threat to the safety of Great Britain or America, but you might disagree) some are indeed wars of survival. In these wars you and the people you love, your very existance is threatened I would fight to the death.

Basically it boils down to this, I would fight and die for people, but not for politics.

[BigTex]

In 2 weeks I go and sign up for the draft. No, if called I would go and join without moaning, it would be my duty. The least I can do in thanks to my forefathers for the freedoms they have granted, and maintained. Some things are worth dieing for, and the continuance of these United States is one of the better of them. Whatever you may call it, blind patriotism, evil nationalism, it has brought us to the top in the world and it will keep us there.

[Kraxis]

If you are not willing to protect your country then you are not willing to protect the values it stand for... Simple as that. That is of course good when those values are not wholly good.
But at the same time politics should not just be put in the backseat in terms of not serving, but also in terms of protecting people.

If I lived in a country under a despotic ruler who liked to oppress other peoples and dissenters, I would still serve if it protected my people from horrible devastation (think terrorbombing for instance). As noted the people shouldn't as a group suffer because of the regime, and I would protect against that.

Btw, I have served my constription in the Danish Royal Navy.

[doc_bean]

I'm totally against the draft, it's only justifiable if your country is being directly attacked imo. I surely wouldn't risk my life to secure mining rights for some friend of a politician who's never seen war first hand.

EDIT: this doesn't mean I wouldn't sign on voluntarily if I felt like it was something I had to do. I believe it is a decision every person has to make for him/her-self.

[Strike For The South]

As long as Im in the USMC and not the air force im good

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Well I'm at Uni and in the UK that leaves you exempt until we're really up the creek. In 2.5 years I'll be at Sandhurst anyway.

I'd serve, hell I'd do air assault if they asked, and I didn't have glasses.

[Divinus Arma]

Of course I read the original post.

I, too, have no urge to join a faceless orginzation for the purpose of violence. That would be like Rallying 'round the flag of CitiBank. So, in this, I understand the points of Soly, Big John, and several others.

So really what is it that we are being asked to defend? A bureacracy? Each other? "American" Values or any other nation's values?

Allow me to clarify my position and place it within the appropriate context:

I care first for my family. I will die and kill to protect my family.

I care secondly for my community. I am surrounded by folks who wish me prosperity and join with me in making my community safe. Firefighters, Police Officers, Doctors, even businessmen, lawyers, and politicians among many others; All of these people wish me prosperity for their own reasons. And I too have a role to play in the prosperity if others. In this effort, we share similar values in compassion, trust, and personal responsibility. These values and this effort are symbolized by our flag, and organized by our government- whom we freely choose.

So, it is not some radical blind nationalism that we who would fight follow. It is the value system of our nation, of our communities, and our countrymen. So long as the United States remains free and true to its principles, I shall fight.

Should my country lose its way and become a force for evil, then I will not fight. Not only will I not fight for it, but I would fight against it- because it is no longer my country, but a fraudulent shadow of itself.


The questions every citizen should ask, having had the privilege of being born free, is why am I free? What does it mean to me? Will my children be free?


That, gentlemen, is the inspiration of your tropps who defend your lives "mindlessly". We who have already sworn an oath to defend the constitution, have done so with the values of our nation in mind. I fight so that my family will never have to. I fight so that my children and grandchildren will be free from tyranny and oppression. And it is why our fathers before us gave their lives.

[Viking]

I am not willing to serve a country that declares war on another country.

[Samurai Waki]

As long as we're the defender and not the oppressor... I'd consider it. Really it just depends on the nature of the war, if say we went to war with Iran over a cheese curd shortage I'd turn tail on run to Canada... or Cuba or something, however, if we went to war with South Dakota I'd grab my hunting rifle and be on the front lines before you could say 'lickety-split'.

[AntiochusIII]

Well, Soly, can you tell me if Tokyo is nice? And can you put me into your fashion show thingy?

Because I'm considering Vancouver...



What a bunch of brave souls, former soldiers, real soldiers, and aggressive, idealistic adolescents of grand oratory...

Cute. I'd be reading All Quiet On The Western Front from some hot springs while you guys fight, then.

[Big_John]

I'd be reading All Quiet On The Western Front from some hot springs while you guys fight, then.

that book is but one of the reasons i'd be on the lamb in meh-hee-co, or letting the more fervid men die in my stratagems.

[Kagemusha]

Well, Soly, can you tell me if Tokyo is nice? And can you put me into your fashion show thingy?

Because I'm considering Vancouver...



What a bunch of brave souls, former soldiers, real soldiers, and aggressive, idealistic adolescents of grand oratory...

Cute. I'd be reading All Quiet On The Western Front from some hot springs while you guys fight, then.

Ive read the All Quiet On the Western front and i think its a great book. But maybe we have little bit different wiew of the War. I live in a small neutral country in my case war would mean an invasion against my nation. So i cant just understand why someone would not defend himself and his fellow men homes,women and children.Even if it was futile? What is the reasoning behind that?

[Strike For The South]

What a bunch of brave souls, former soldiers, real soldiers, and aggressive, idealistic adolescents of grand oratory...

or-a-to-ry, n. [L. oratoria (sc. ars) the oratorical art.]
1) the art of public speaking in an eloquent or effective manner;
the exercise of rhetorical skill in oral discourse;
eloquence.-- Webster's Dictionary --

Why wouldnt you want to serve this eluedes me. What if it was just? Bottom line for me is if I get called Im going becuase well I guess thats the way Im wired. I dont have a good reason actually (well one that would be considered good). Ill do it becuase my country needs me end of story no bitching or complaining about it. They call I go I serve and try to make it home and one peice (Oh and win that to)

[Ja'chyra]

I'd go, not to serve my country but to protect my family.

As I failed the medical for the RN when I was 16 it's all a moot point, although I do work for the MoD so I'm still doing my part as best I can.

[Alexanderofmacedon]

Now, this is all hypothetical. Imagine you are between the age of 18-25. I use this age because that is the draft age for the USA, and I'm not sure on other countries ages. Your country has just declared war on another country. Your country's current military strength is not sufficient for the upcoming war. They require additonal manpower and require a draft.

You recieve a letter in the mail, saying you've been drafted. What is your reaction?

Gelatinous Cube and Divinus Arma:

So, you said earlier that solypsist is a coward for not complying in a draft when an enemy army is invading the United States:

That someone wouldn't join a draft even if the country were invaded is just disgusting. You don't have to be a reactionary conservative to defend your homeland.

First of all, it's a theoretical draft. I think you're taking this bit far calling people cowards. Second of all in the first post did ghost908 say an enemy army was invading? No. He states quite clearly we are the ones declaring war even though we don't have the man power. Third of all, once again remember that this is not a real war and if a real one did come around, you're saying you'd join no matter the reason?

EDIT: Excuse me if this has been already stated or remedied, but I only read the first page and felt it necessary to post.