The creation of the Universe.

[Rodion Romanovich]

I can't argue with you about the God model because it can't be tested. There is no evidence for or against that I can validate through scientific method, and I can't replicate your observations. Thus the God model belongs to the world of faith, not to the world of science. Comparing scientific theories with faith is fruitless. Neither is necessarily 'The Truth' but they are utterly different paradigms.

First of all I'm not supporting God theory just because I don't support the Big bang theory. Plus regarding the God model, you can indeed prove it's existence through a circular proof - define God as "the creator of the universe", then the universe must have been created by God. But as I explained earlier in the thread, that God concept isn't necessarily the same concept as the concept religious people normally call God. For example, if the big bang theory would be true, then the Big Bang would be called God, and the word God would refer to Big Bang, but it wouldn't simulatenously imply that you can pray to Big Bang, and expect a response. It could also mean that the word God is defined as a classifying concept containing many concept, much like "primates" refer to all individual apes and humans. So God would then, in this example, mean "Big Bang AND some being you can pray to", without Big Bang being the same as the being you could pray to. And you wouldn't either have any proof of the being you can pray to exists, you might even have a situation where Big Bang exists and the being you can pray to doesn't, while you can still define the word "God" as both of them together. And because much religion define God as the creator of the universe, this circular proof isn't as bad as it might sound, the problem is that the religious seldom understand that God concept, and use it in a different meaning in other cases, without knowing it's a different concept in reality they are referring to. Apart from that I won't discuss the God model, except explain what I mean by this text above if it was unclear.

No, because there is nothing there. You're still trying to work with a linear model.

So what would the photographic lenses, on telescopes, if zoomed in far enough, record on them? Blackness? Can the non-existance have a color? If you could see the non-existance, it would be a paradox.

Time is a dimensional property of the universe. If the universe doesn't exist then neither does time. We need to agree on our language - you are taking my use of the word 'assumption' as if am using it as a bad thing.

But the Big Bang theory isn't about the birth of the universe, is it? It's supposed to explain why matter is moving like it does today, split up the way it is today, and why exergy exists and we don't live in a thermal death-scenario. If you can show that the Big Bang theory explains the birth of dimensions too, then I could maybe believe in it. But as it is now the concept of matter and exergy is called universe when you try to prove the theory, and when you use it, the concept of matter, exergy, energy and dimensions are also involved in the concept. I'm not trying to be cheeky, just want to know if there, within the big bang theory, is really any explanation for these things too?

Assumptions, alongside observations, are the basis of science. One makes an assumption to test a theory and if the assumption can be validated, it helps bolster the theory. The problem with the God model is that there are no ways to test the assumptions integral to the theory. This does not mean the God model is wrong, just that it can't be validated except through faith, and therefore it is not science.

A theory derived theoretically by logic etc. is based on assumptions, like all logic. The problem is, if those assumptions are incorrect, the entire theory isn't necessarily true any more. That's why every statement about reality should rely as little as possible on as few assumptions as possible.


@mystic brew: Yes, I can support the statemetn that time can be a dimension, but I can't support that time wouldn't have existed always, or that the room dimensions wouldn't have existed always, unless there's some motivation for it. Which "universe" was created by big bang? Time and space and energy and exergy, or just exergy and some movement of matter? There's still no proof that those parts of the universe (time and space) hasn't existed always, and that it would have been created. Actually there's still no proof that both matter, energy, exergy, time and space hasn't existed always.