About the Roman Army in a nutshell

[Ultras DVSC]

Thanks a lot, I was quite irresolute in this princeps-principes question, but it's clear already.

[gardibolt]

If this is for a history lesson, I would make it clearer that the quote at the end is a hypothetical one, not one actually ever delivered by a Roman general. Otherwise you might get points off.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

A couple of points.

Hastatii really were more of a light infantry.

Maniples and Cohorts always existed, the shift was in tactics. Basically the Legions manuvered in Cohorts, where before they manuvered in maniples.

Note: Modern soldiers carry the same weight in marching kit as a legionary did, its an interesting point.

Some of your Latin terms are a bit quirks but someone else would be better to point those out.

[econ21]

Hastatii really were more of a light infantry.

I disagree. The hastati fought in close combat on the front line, in close formation, with kit pretty similar to the principes and later legionnaires. I'd say they functioned as heavy infantry, even if they were not particularly well armoured.

I would reserve the term "light infantry" to refer to those who fought in loose formation - often skirmishing and fighting at range rather than moving to close quarters - the velites, peltasts, slingers, archers etc of the period.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I disagree. The hastati fought in close combat on the front line, in close formation, with kit pretty similar to the principes and later legionnaires. I'd say they functioned as heavy infantry, even if they were not particularly well armoured.

I would reserve the term "light infantry" to refer to those who fought in loose formation - often skirmishing and fighting at range rather than moving to close quarters - the velites, peltasts, slingers, archers etc of the period.

I think you're confusing "light Infantry," and "Skirmisher" The Hastati were intended to attack first, wear the enemy down and soften them up for the Princepae. They weren't inteded to have much staying power, which is why I term them "light" the fact that they were generally less well armoured just re-inforces the point.

[econ21]

I think you're confusing "light Infantry," and "Skirmisher" The Hastati were intended to attack first, wear the enemy down and soften them up for the Princepae. They weren't inteded to have much staying power, which is why I term them "light" the fact that they were generally less well armoured just re-inforces the point.

Well, you can term them whatever you like, but you'd be hard pressed to find a military history book or even wargame rule set that agrees with you. It's conventional to distinguish light and heavy infantry according to how they fought. Light infantry would tend to operate in loose formation, heavy infantry in close order. The hastati fought exactly the same way as the principes - they were just younger and were sent in first. If principes were heavy infantry, so were hastati.

I'm not actually convinced the hastati were that much less well armoured. I believe richer members would have similar armour to the principes. But again, I would not define light and heavy infantry by armour.

I guess we are just arguing over semantics, but you just have to play RTW (or RTR or EB or whatever) to see that hastati and principes are functionally almost interchangeable (& so were merged after Marius) - and very different from the velites and other true light infantry. A rose by any other name...

[Garvanko]

I think you're confusing "light Infantry," and "Skirmisher" The Hastati were intended to attack first, wear the enemy down and soften them up for the Princepae. They weren't inteded to have much staying power, which is why I term them "light" the fact that they were generally less well armoured just re-inforces the point.

Hastati fought as the leading edge of the early roman legion's manipular formation. It they really were light infantry wouldn't they have been given some kind of role on the flanks? The stats for Hastati and Principes are pretty even - its just that historically, the older more experienced soldiers were Principes. Greater experience and slightly better armour gave them slightly better stats, but not that much better.

Both were clearly heavy infantry.

[Quillan]

That depends on how you define light vs heavy infantry. Some people define it based upon equipment, in which case the hastati are probably light infantry, since about all they typically had was that square bronze chest protector and a shield. Others define it by fighting style, in which case they are heavy infantry, since they fought in melee in close formation. Some wargames split the difference, and in such games they'd be medium infantry. "Light infantry" are typically skirmishers in the ancient world, which hastati most definitely were not.