Post marian Army Make-up

[St Derfel Cadarn]

I'm trying to keep things real (in R:TW), so can anybody help me with post Marian Reform formations:-

Following previous advice I had been using the following:-

V - V - V - V -
- H - H - H - H
E - P - P - P - P - E
G - T - T

With all the Early Legionary Cohorts and Auxilia etc I'm confused as to which to use (in attempting to be as historically accurate as possible, that is).

Any one have any ideas?

[Avicenna]

Walk up with your legionaries in a big line while your missiles fire and your cavalry support infantry + protect missiles. Envelop the enemy line and surround them. The rest is up to you.

[St Derfel Cadarn]

Sorry Tiberius, you've missed my meaning.

The info I am after is what the army should be made up of, not necessarily tactics on how to engage.

[Avicenna]

Legionary first cohort if you have Rome. If not, do senate missions till they give you one. This provides morale bonus. Use archers or archer auxilia depending on which is higher damage (I think pre-M archers but not sure. auxilia have higher armour but are more expensive). Keep triarii: they are the best spearmen you'll get. Legionary cohorts can be your core, and your cav can be legionary or praetorian (expensive but a bit better).

If you have spare money you could also add in a few urbans.

[YAKOBU]

Hi Invicta

My standard post-marian army would have:

10 Legionary Cohorts or 9 plus a First Cohort
2 Archer Auxilia
2 Legionary Cavalry
1 General.

The other 5 spaces would be filled with mercenaries/artillery as required.

Most forum users stay away from Praetorians/Urbans as being unrealistic.

I assume the advice you had been given was for a pre-marian army initially.

[econ21]

I suspect a historical post-Marian Republican army using RTW units would be:

9 early legion cohorts + 1 early first cohort
1 general
1 Roman cavalry

then add a mix of mercenaries to represent allied troops suitable to the region. These would most commonly be light infantry (Cretan archers, Baelaric slingers, merc. peltasts, Thracians etc) to skirmish and cavalry (barbarian and Numidian mercs) to supplement the Roman horse.

The auxilia and vanilla legionnaires are more properly Imperial units, rather than post-Marian republican ones. I am unsure of the proportions, but as much as half of an early Imperial army might be auxiliaries (with spear auxilia and light auxilia predominating). You could add a Praetorian cav and infantry for flavour too. Onagers and ballistas would not be inappropriate either.

[Goalie]

My standard post marius army consists of
-4 Praetorian/Legionary Calvary
-4 Archer Auxilla
-4 Legionary Chorts
-2 Praetorian Cohorts
-2 Urban Cohorts
-2 Heavy Onagers
-2 Arcani
The cohorts can be interchangable. Also if I can I prefer Cretan Archers over Archer Auxilla.

[Kagemusha]

My basic post Marian army consists of:

10 legionary cohorts
3 auxiliary archers
6 legionary cavalry
1 General

[Kagemusha]

My basic post Marian army consists of:

10 legionary cohorts
3 auxiliary archers
6 legionary cavalry
1 General

This way i can split the army on 3 working "manipuls"

1st

4 legionary cohorts
1 auxiliary archers
2 legionary cavalry

2nd,3rd

3 legionary cohorts
1 auxiliary archers
2 legionary cavalry


Sorry double post.

[Ciaran]

I keep using the checkboard system in the post-reform army, with Legionaries in the first (well, second) line and Praetorians or Urbans in the second, with Auxiliaries at the outmost of the second line.
That makes five Legionary cohorts, four Praetorian/Urban cohorts, four Auxiliaries (due to the expected losses), at least two heavy cavalry and the rest for ranged weapons, mixing Javelins and archers.

[orangat]

I like realism but the fact of the matter is that the game was designed to be somewhat fair across a number of factions to keep things interesting. If Roman infantry units had rotating frontlines instead of the steady attrition in RTW, nothing would be able to stop them.

I keep using the checkboard system in the post-reform army, with Legionaries in the first (well, second) line and Praetorians or Urbans in the second, with Auxiliaries at the outmost of the second line.
That makes five Legionary cohorts, four Praetorian/Urban cohorts, four Auxiliaries (due to the expected losses), at least two heavy cavalry and the rest for ranged weapons, mixing Javelins and archers.

Is the quincux formation useful in SP or MP? It leaves gaps which exposes the front line to flanking attacks.

[econ21]

Is the quincux formation useful in SP or MP? It leaves gaps which exposes the front line to flanking attacks.

I don't know about MP. It's surprisingly good in SP against phalanx armies. It gives you room to maneouvre and flexibility to flank them piecemeal. (This experience is from all using 1.2 mods (EB & RTR) - maybe the phalanx AI got better with the 1.5 patch).

I think it suffers against barbarian type armies which just line up in a straightline and charge you. It leaves you with a short line, with holes in. Not good.

There's been some good threads on this formation on the RTR team's website forum. Apparently, in reality, it would not leave gaps - hastati in the second line would move forward to fill them prior to contact. So in RTW, it may be not too unhistorical to bring the principes forward to create a solid line against barbarians.

As you say, RTW does not capture the key advantage of such a deep formation - allowing tired troops to be withdrawn and replaced by fresh ones. Try that in RTW and your retiring men will suffer horribly.

[Ciaran]

Well, I wouldn´t be using it if it weren´t any good...

The units that try to attack the flanks of the first line expose their own flanks to my more powerfull infantry in the second line, so overall I deal more damage than I take.
And Roman units take flanking quite well, better than most other.