Another strike towards sanity

[Strike For The South]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/03/15/ch...sts/index.html

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[/SPOI6L]Most of the 27 people named in the indictments are identified only by their screen names:

•G.O.D. of Clarksville, Tennessee
•Acidburn of Bartlett, Illinois
•Big_Daddy619 of Edmonton, Alberta
•ax9572 of London, England
•Entity of Manchester, England
•Yyydbh5182 of North Aurora, Illinois
•Behrplus_925 of Aurora, Illinois
•Darkhorse of Kalamazoo, Michigan
•Wharfrat of Reno, Nevada
•CuLeX of Milton, Florida
•A_School_Teacher of Oakfield, New York
•Lord_Newbie of Charlotte, North Carolina
•Alex1 of Sebring, Florida
•Nemo of Phoenix, Arizona
•BlueDragon of Ashgrove, Australia
•Sir_CP of Victoria, Australia
•DarcBiocode of Stafford, Australia
•LoneWolf_95 of Brandon, Manitoba
•Henry40Babe of Kingston, Ontario
•Lumberjack of Woodbridge, Ontario
•10_boy_canada of Selkirk, Manitoba
•Fydei of Longueuil, Quebec
•Msg4Homemade of Courtenay, British Columbia
•LordVader of Prince Georgia, British Columbia
•Msg2Trade of Toronto, Ontario
•HumbleDuchess of Osceola, Iowa
•Geograns of Kapolei, Hawaii

27 pedapholies will be brought to justice. I love it when these happen. I get a bubbly feeling inside knowing these "people" wont be able to hurt a child agian.

[Alexanderofmacedon]

Yes. They are sick. But they should be treated as sick people, not murderers.

[Strike For The South]

I disagree these people are S-C-U-M and on there first onfense should be castrated. There second life.

[Reenk Roink]

Beatdowns followed by educational videos are the way to go...

EDIT: Just read the stroy...severe beatdowns...

[master of the puppets]

for defiling an innocent youth they have or would have, they should never be forgiven, they should be extracted from society and branded so everyone can know just what kind of monster they are.

[Navaros]

27 pedapholies will be brought to justice. I love it when these happen. I get a bubbly feeling inside knowing these "people" wont be able to hurt a child agian.

Unfortunately I do not believe they will be "brought to justice". I was watching a documentary on this subject last weekend and most convicted pedophiles were only in jail for a few years at most. And often less than that. They had a victim speaking on the documentary, who was still only around 15 at the time of the interview, and he was saying that "jail is a joke to them". He goes around and speaks at all their sentencing hearings (which he seems to have done quite a lot of already) but it doesn't appear to be doing much good.

Maybe things are different in the USA than in Canada but some of those listed in the original post were in Canada, so at the very least, not 100% of them would be "brought to justice".

[JAG]

Yes. They are sick. But they should be treated as sick people, not murderers.

Well said. Every society is judged by how it looks after those most vulnerable and sick and in pedophilia cases there are two people who are vulnerable, the poor child victim and the pedophile. Just because someone has done an unthinkable crime, it doesn't mean they are not humans with rights, people who can be helped and not in need of help. It is our duty to rehabilitate these people not only for their own good, the child they molested, the future children they might molest but also for society as a whole. If we rehabilitate pedophiles and other criminals, it is society as a whole which directly benefits most.

[Banquo's Ghost]

Well said. Every society is judged by how it looks after those most vulnerable and sick and in pedophilia cases there are two people who are vulnerable, the poor child victim and the pedophile. Just because someone has done an unthinkable crime, it doesn't mean they are not humans with rights, people who can be helped and not in need of help. It is our duty to rehabilitate these people not only for their own good, the child they molested, the future children they might molest but also for society as a whole. If we rehabilitate pedophiles and other criminals, it is society as a whole which directly benefits most.

Philosophically, I have some sympathy for your view. One of the things that is forgotten about paedophiles is that many of them are victims of previous abuse in their own childhoods, and end up perpetuating abuse.

However, it is also true that paedophilia is notoriously difficult to treat effectively. Paedophiles are extremely wily, denying to themselves the magnitude of their crime. They lie very effectively, to themselves and to assessors. Repeat offending is very high.

Rehabilitation therefore, is an extremely expensive and fairly risky business. An essential part of rehabilitation is recognition of the crime and acceptance within society of the criminal. Very few people are willing to accept paedophiles into their community in a forgiving manner that might give them a chance to rehabilitate, which leads to hiding and increased risk of re-offending. Given the vulnerability of children to this crime (most abuse is never reported) I think society is unwilling to shoulder the risk and cost - this does not make it a harsh community, but a rational one.

My own view is based on this cost/benefit analysis. I don't believe in the death penalty (prone to irreversible errors, populism and frankly way too easy a punishment) but would sentence almost all who exhibit this level of paedophilia to life imprisonment with extremely hard labour, without possibility of parole. Unless society wants to spend the time and money truly rehabilitating, it should never let them out.

[UglyandHasty]

Paedophilia cant be treated. Those sick bastridge are a threat to our children, i cant think of any civilized way to treat them. Instead of thinking of ways to rehabilited those garbage, we should think of ways to protect and treated the underaged victim. Not the predators. They should pay in blood and sweat. They abused childs that still wore diapers !

What's good about this case, is the level of cooperation between different police corp of different countries. I hope the hunt for these psycho is open for good !

[Kralizec]

Excellent post, Haruchai.

I stress the importance of looking at pedophiles on a case-by-case basis. Some of them might be helpless and mentally handicapped who can be rehabilitated, depending on how bad their crimes were and how many. Plus, a 16 year old getting it on with a 15 year old is technicly pedophilia, too.

In the case of serial rapists or members of organised networks, lock them away and throw away the key. People like those mentioned in the article should be kept outside the sunlight forever even if only for the safety of our children.

[mystic brew]

i would point out that to paaedophiles, prison is anything but a joke. they are the lowest of the low to a normal con, and certainly in the UK, they are generally category A prisoners, mainly for their own protection. The article referenced below

That said, i saw a deeply compelling/disturbing series on BBC2 a while ago, http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2027864.stm. i actually couldn't watch this sitting down...

Towards the end there was an interview with a german paedophile who turned himself in and volounteered to chemical castration, and was living a normal life, as far as could be told.

But this guy wanted to reform, and was appalled by his actions. whether this treatment can be applied to others is a different issue.

just for clarity, here is the law as it stands in the UK.

The Law:

The legal age for young people to consent to have sex is 16. This applies to heterosexual and homosexual sex.

* Although it is technically illegal for two fifteen year olds to engage in sexual activity, the Home Office has stated “the law is not intended to prosecute mutually agreed teenage sexual activity between two young people of a similar age, unless it involves abuse or exploitation.”
* And young people still have the right to confidential advice on contraception, pregnancy and abortion even if they are under 16.

The government recently reformed and amended the law relating to child sexual abuse in the Sexual Offences Act of 2003. The offences are now split according to age.
Under 13s

All penetrative sex (including penetration of the mouth) of a child aged 12 or younger is classified as rape and carries a maximum penalty of life in prison. A child this old is considered to be incapable of legally giving consent.

* Other offences include assault by penetration (with an object or part of the body), sexual assault (any kind of sexual touching), and causing or inciting a child to engage in sexual activity (this could include making a child strip, or promising them rewards for sexual behaviour).
* Assault by penetration has a maximum penalty of life in prison; sexual assault and causing or inciting a child under 13 to engage in sexual activity both have maximum penalties of 14 years in prison.

13-15 Year Olds

The following are some examples of the offences where the offender is aged 18 or over (but where the sexual activity takes place between someone below the age of 18 and someone under 16, the offences are similar but carry lower sentences).

Sexual activity with a child

* This law covers all intercourse, other penetration or sexual touching of a child and carries a maximum sentence of 14 years in prison.

Causing or inciting a child to engage in sexual activity

* This covers causing or persuading a child to engage in any sexual activity, including sexual acts with someone else, or making a child strip or masturbate. Again, the maximum sentence is 14 years in prison.

Engaging in sexual activity in the presence of a child

* Under this law, it is an offence to intentionally engage in sexual activity when you know that you can be seen by a child, or you believe or intend that they can see you, and where you do this in order to get sexual gratification from the fact that they may be watching you.

Causing a child to watch a sexual act

* This makes it an offence to intentionally cause a child to watch someone else taking part in sexual activity for the purpose of your own sexual gratification.

Meeting a child following sexual grooming

* Under this new law, if you are over 18 and have communicated with a child under 16 at least twice (including communication by phone or internet) it is an offence to meet them, or travel to meet them, anywhere in the world with the intention of committing one of the offences above.

Arranging or facilitating a child sex offence

* This makes it an offence to knowingly arrange or carry out an action in any part of the world which will lead to one of the offences above being committed.

16 and 17 Year Olds

Since most sexual abuse of children takes place in the home, the law now makes it an offence for any child under 18 to engage in sexual activity with a ‘family member’.

* Family member now includes foster family, step family and, in some instances, lodgers.

Also, it is an offence for a person working in a position of trust (e.g. a teacher, Connexions Advisor, nurse or carer) to engage in sexual activity with any child under 18. In other cases that age limit would be 16.

[LeftEyeNine]

No doubt these are sick bastards. But I think if bashing, killing, torturing and other reactions are what you think they deserve then so do the proper homosexuals. I think sexual perversion (no matter which degree it is) is something from the birth and and through your unexplored corners of brain. Can you decide what looks or feels attractive to you? No. Of course this does not mean these criminals are not threatening the peace of a society. But I wanted to point out that in terms of "sex", one can not be abused above some degree. It's not what you choose. It's widely about the way you are from the birth and the environment you were exposed after it.

[Alexanderofmacedon]

Sick people who won't ever get better and whose crimes already commited against society far outweigh any good we might be able to make of them, and certainly outweigh any justification for paying for their rehabilitation.

That said, they aren't sick enough to get away with this crap. They knew what they were doing is wrong--rapists and molesters generally do. That's the dividing line. They aren't hapless invalids doing the only thing they can, they're criminal scum.

String 'em up.

I agree, they are scum, but they're still sick. They should deffinetly be locked up to keep the communities safe. I don't think you fully understood my comment, but it's hard to, on forums.

[Alexanderofmacedon]

No doubt these are sick bastards. But I think if bashing, killing, torturing and other reactions are what you think they deserve then so do the proper homosexuals. I think sexual perversion (no matter which degree it is) is something from the birth and and through your unexplored corners of brain. Can you decide what looks or feels attractive to you? No. Of course this does not mean these criminals are not threatening the peace of a society. But I wanted to point out that in terms of "sex", one can not be abused above some degree. It's not what you choose. It's widely about the way you are from the birth and the environment you were exposed after it.

Agreed.

[mystic brew]

No doubt these are sick bastards. But I think if bashing, killing, torturing and other reactions are what you think they deserve then so do the proper homosexuals.

I agree with some of what you say, but can we please be very clear that homosexuality and paedophilia are two ENTIRELY different things?

[BigTex]

Those peadophiles need to be tar and feathered!!!! Sick f***s need to be cleansed from society, screwing up innocent children.



Torture and use them for medical testing.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Pedophilia is not a crime. Child molesting is a crime. People don't molest children because they are pedophiles, they do it because they are pedophiles and evil. It's like the difference between a heterosexual and a rapist.

Child molesters should be treated same as rapists. I don't think rehabilition works though I could be wrong. Long prison sentances sound right.

And of course looking at child porn is wrong too. The sentance would obviously be less severe.

[LeftEyeNine]

I agree with some of what you say, but can we please be very clear that homosexuality and paedophilia are two ENTIRELY different things?

Yeah both concepts are described entirely different linguistically. However in a world that is generally heterosexual provided that biology supports this order, homosexuality and peadophilia take their roots from very close points.

Maybe not your request but I have to clarify a point : I'm not a homophobiac nor accusing any homosexuals of being socially threatening. Human is human. However, as the science supports, what they and paedophiliacs find attractive is not right. Homosexuals live it on adult levels within their private lives but the sick paedophiliacs try it with children -that's the huge difference, not anything else.

The point saying that homosexuals would deserve the same way the paedophiliacs would be exposed is that those weirdos' perversion is not their choice. You can't make them feel right by beating them to the last bone, I'm also highly doubtful that they can be rehabilitated completely. Most efficient way seems to be the isolation.

This is my cent, and here is the other one.

[Banquo's Ghost]

Pedophilia is not a crime. Child molesting is a crime. People don't molest children because they are pedophiles, they do it because they are pedophiles and evil. It's like the difference between a heterosexual and a rapist.

I'm not at all sure what you are trying to say, but you're wrong. Paedophiles are sexually interested in children, and in most of Europe (and I am pretty sure in the USA too) acting on that interest in any way will attract a serious criminal sentence. People who are paedophiles almost always act on their impulses.

If you are trying to say that the mere thought of sexual attraction to children but without any action upon that thought is not criminal, then theoretically you're correct, but it's rather splitting hairs - and to defend what point?

It is certainly not equivalent to comparing heterosexuality (which is legal in both thought and practice) and rape (which is fundamentally a crime of control and violence, much less sexual gratification).

[mystic brew]

Thanks. made clear.

sorry, you touched a nerve. But i've far too often seen the two treated as being the same.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

People who are paedophiles almost always act on their impulses.

Is this true?

If you are trying to say that the mere thought of sexual attraction to children but without any action upon that thought is not criminal, then theoretically you're correct, but it's rather splitting hairs - and to defend what point?

Saying someone is a criminal when they're not is wrong. Like me saying someone is a rapist because they are heterosexual.

[master of the puppets]

the worst cases cannot be rehibilitated, and they cannot be reinjected into society. we need a nice small island in the middle of the pacific where we can just drop all the scum off.

[A.Saturnus]

I'm not at all sure what you are trying to say, but you're wrong. Paedophiles are sexually interested in children, and in most of Europe (and I am pretty sure in the USA too) acting on that interest in any way will attract a serious criminal sentence. People who are paedophiles almost always act on their impulses.

As far as I know, there are pedophiles who do not act on these impulses and by consequence, they are not criminals. But also by consequence, it shows a flaw in LEN's reasoning. It cannot be ethically questionable to be a pedophile, just as it cannot be ethically questionable to be homosexual. But pederasts act on their impulses, knowing that doing so is wrong. No one has it under his control to be a pedophile but pederasts have it under control. Therefore being a pedophile is no more an excuse for pederasty than sexual needs are for rape. Thus, pederasts are criminals, not merely victims of a sickness.

[LeftEyeNine]

As far as I know, there are pedophiles who do not act on these impulses and by consequence, they are not criminals. But also by consequence, it shows a flaw in LEN's reasoning.

Of course if there are pedophiles that can stand what runs through their minds, then they can't be counted sick and that makes a flaw in my way of reasoning. It is why homosexuals can not be counted "sick" -I never did.

[Alexanderofmacedon]

Those peadophiles need to be tar and feathered!!!! Sick f***s need to be cleansed from society, screwing up innocent children.



Torture and use them for medical testing.

You and SFTS need to get together...

[Soulforged]

There's no difference between pedofilia and other cases of sexual tastes. The one action that is criminal, and reasonable so, is molesting and raping. As far as I'm concerned pedophiles are not sick. Conducts such as those can be seen on the natural world around us and they're pretty normal. People who socialize, at least a part of their lives, learn to control their basic instincts, people who don't socialize are no more than animals, they don't learn the way of man they simply live by instinct. Every pedophile, by instance, demostrates how much marginalization there's on society, and every case solved (and I mean by socializing the person), demostrates how responsable and devoloped a society is. Punishment is not a solution just an analgesic. You want a rapid solution to this, there isn't any, if you want a real solution then talk to that one that you never talked offer him help or treat him as an equal, that prevents this kind of behavior.

[Ja'chyra]

Boohoo, the poor defenceless paedo's are really the victims, we should do all we can to help them.

What utter bollocks, as is all the "Every society is judged by how it looks after those most vulnerable and sick" when applied to sexual predators. Society's, and every adults therein, duty is to look after the future, the children, and if that means that all paedophiles are locked away for life then I would say that is a bargain, and well worth it.

If counselling can help them before they commit crimes then, by all means, save two lives, this can only be a good thing, but, once the crime has been committed they should be excised like the cancer on society they are.

Conducts such as those can be seen on the natural world around us and they're pretty normal

So is cannabilism and killing the young of different fathers, hell some animals even eat their own young, should we be encouraging them too?

Once again, tree hugging taken to extremes You can't save everyone, and some don't even deserve the effort.

[Soulforged]

Boohoo, the poor defenceless paedo's are really the victims, we should do all we can to help them.

Needless to say that an emotional response don't make a sound arguement.

What utter bollocks, as is all the "Every society is judged by how it looks after those most vulnerable and sick" when applied to sexual predators. Society's, and every adults therein, duty is to look after the future, the children, and if that means that all paedophiles are locked away for life then I would say that is a bargain, and well worth it.

Pedophilia generally starts at an early age, puberty. If you're looking to the future then help that one that's being marginalized, that IN FACT demonstrates how much socialized everyone is.

If counselling can help them before they commit crimes then, by all means, save two lives, this can only be a good thing, but, once the crime has been committed they should be excised like the cancer on society they are.

So if the rest of society fails to provide the care they need to this mentally "deviated" man or woman you say "to hell with them". That's not even a solution, you cannot make scraps and rewrites with human life. I'm not sure of the next, but I think most pedophiles never commit crimes, they do however satisfy their sexual tastes by looking for naive (and not so naive) childs, if you're so worried.

So is cannabilism and killing the young of different fathers, hell some animals even eat their own young, should we be encouraging them too?

I don't remember using the word "encourage". My idea is exactly the opposite, but to do that you can't simply send them all to hell, you've to socialize with them and in turn they do the same with you. That's a perfect way to reduce canibalism too.

Once again, tree hugging taken to extremes You can't save everyone, and some don't even deserve the effort.

Is not tree hugging at all. Many people that take punishment as the first resolution before every subject that appears as morally regreatable primera facie forget to check reallity and logic from time to time. The problem here is untamed behavior, the charge of socialization is on society itself, the individual generally is too weak to face all society as one, so he needs friends, he needs people, he needs someone who can help him pass throughout his life and learn to be an human, if nobody is disposed to do that then I think that we've already lost a far better value than upright sexual tastes. Don't you believe the same?

[Soulforged]

People have a duty to society. It is not the other way around.

Pleople constitute society, therefore the duty is always reciprocal. Helping the little, the marginal, the poor is always a duty of society, a moral duty that's wich means that you're not forced to do so but it's the right thing to do.

[Divinus Arma]

Wrong. It is not society's duty to help the poor. Society is a tool with many uses, that can only be sustained through a common-will. A common-will which does not have to include raising everyone's standard of living.

Nice. Well put GC.

I also agree with enthusiasmon this comment:

People have a duty to society. It is not the other way around.

I think that some people misinterpret this idea as people have a duty to government, which is a very different concept.

Yes, we have a duty to government: To be mistrustful, to be ever vigilant, to challenge assumptions, and most importantly to be involved and engaged.

Some may think that duty to government and society means that we must be subservient and obediant- a grave but understandable misunderstanding.