Org Mobile Site
Thread: The Next PBeM is…..Carthage!
It seems clear that the next PBeM that will be started (as instigated by me) is to be with Carthage and it is very likely it will also be play periods “by reign”. I have finalised the rules & guidelines which are detailed below. Please comment on them as although they are finalised, there may be errors or items that – with more experienced PBeM players about – are just un-playable.
Game Setting.
VH Campaign / Medium Battles / Large Units.
Game Requirements.
Rome: Total War patched to 1.5 (as CA intended).
Open Threads.
There will be TWO concurrent threads. An Out of Character (OOC) and In Character (IC) thread. The OOC thread is for technical questions, game and other general discussion relating to this particular PBM. The IC thread will be for game reports, stories etc.
House rules/Guidelines
1. The Campaign ends when 50 provinces are held including the following Target provinces/Cities: Carthage, Rome, Kydonia, Siclia (i.e. all of Sicily), Caralis, Palma, Carthage Nova, Corduba, Thapsus and Siwa. In addition to this a Special Task should be completed before the campaign ends (see * below).
2. No settlement to be Exterminated (enslavement is permitted).
3. The following factions MUST be eliminated: Iberians, SPQR, Scipii & Numidia.
4. The only buildings permitted to be demolished in any captured (or previously held) settlement are religious buildings.
5. Retraining: Elephant units cannot be re-trained OR merged. Only Two units, of any other kind, are permitted to be re-trained in each settlement per turn (6 months). Non-Elephant Units can be merged as normal.
6. Succession: Only mature faction members can be chosen to become Heirs. Candidates must be no more than 20 years junior to your current Faction Leader. If no family member is available of this age the oldest available must be selected.
7. Any Rules Queries – just ask. Post your problem during your tenure and I’ll rule on it. Circumstances change in a campaign beyond what I can envisage.
8. You do not have to wait until the previous player has posted his write-up before starting to play.
9. Write-ups: These can be as in depth or as brief yet informative as you wish. All writing styles are accommodated. I suggest limiting your playing time each sitting so you can do a write up after each session. That way, once you’ve finished your tenure you’ll already have your write up done.
10. Mount Suribachi must join this PBEM, but not until he's finished his write-up for his WRE reign.
11. There is to be no incursion through Italy further North than the Capua & Tarrentum North borders. Further incursion into Italy MUST be from the North going South.
12. The Spirit of the House Rules – you can see that these rules indicate a general “spirit” of what and how the campaign is to be conducted. Please do not breach these rules and try to uphold them as best you can, they are for the benefit of you and other players and to enhance your enjoyment of the campaign.
N.B. Saves will be uploaded to: http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/ by using http://www.totalwar.org/Downloads/Up.../pbmupload.php Advise the next player in the chain of the file name via PM or email AND post the file name in the OOC thread.
*Special Task: At least ONE complete (i.e. full original strength, not retrained or merged) Elephant unit (any type except Merc) should be marched from Carthage to Rome via the following regions – Numidia, Mauretania, Baetica, Hispania, Taraconenis, Narbonensis, Transalpine Gaul & Cisalpine Gaul (the last section to Rome from Cisalpine Gaul, is up to the player). How you perform this task is up to the player. N.B. You do not have to hold or have protectorate status over these regions, only that you pass the unit through them en-route to Rome. The unit can be depleted during the fight for Rome itself but must not be Routed or Destroyed at this point. If you wish to complete this extra task, screenshots will be nice.
The Compulsory Rule
Inactivity – Players must post, in some form, within 5 days of receiving notice of their start. “Holiday” periods due to vacation, computer problems, corrupt files etc must be advised as soon as possible. Failure to post in any form (only needs to be one sentence to advise us of your status in the OOC thread), will result in the loss of tenure. The last .sav file on archive will be used for the new tenure.
Players active will still be required to post within 5 days of the commencement of there tenure in some form. Even if it’s a post on the OOC thread to ensure we know they are active. This is a rolling rule and players are required to post on the OOC at least every 5 days thereafter.
Silence can only be assumed to be inactivity. Inactivity = tenure passing to the next player on the list.
Victory!
A Major Victory = All above House Rules completed. (By the Gods! Well done, I didn’t expect that!)
A Minor Victory = House Rules 1 & 3 are completed but the Special Task is incomplete/failed/not attempted. (Well done again, you rule supreme, but how much better tasting could that victory have been….)
A Minor Loss = House Rule 1 completed, Special Task incomplete / Failed. (Darn! SO very close…and yet so far)
A Major Loss = You’ve run out of turns, no House Rules completed. OR, Player Faction destroyed. (D’oh! Why! When! Where! What! Nooooooo!)
Game Setting.
VH Campaign / Medium Battles / Large Units.
Game Requirements.
Rome: Total War patched to 1.5 (as CA intended).
Open Threads.
There will be TWO concurrent threads. An Out of Character (OOC) and In Character (IC) thread. The OOC thread is for technical questions, game and other general discussion relating to this particular PBM. The IC thread will be for game reports, stories etc.
House rules/Guidelines
1. The Campaign ends when 50 provinces are held including the following Target provinces/Cities: Carthage, Rome, Kydonia, Siclia (i.e. all of Sicily), Caralis, Palma, Carthage Nova, Corduba, Thapsus and Siwa. In addition to this a Special Task should be completed before the campaign ends (see * below).
2. No settlement to be Exterminated (enslavement is permitted).
3. The following factions MUST be eliminated: Iberians, SPQR, Scipii & Numidia.
4. The only buildings permitted to be demolished in any captured (or previously held) settlement are religious buildings.
5. Retraining: Elephant units cannot be re-trained OR merged. Only Two units, of any other kind, are permitted to be re-trained in each settlement per turn (6 months). Non-Elephant Units can be merged as normal.
6. Succession: Only mature faction members can be chosen to become Heirs. Candidates must be no more than 20 years junior to your current Faction Leader. If no family member is available of this age the oldest available must be selected.
7. Any Rules Queries – just ask. Post your problem during your tenure and I’ll rule on it. Circumstances change in a campaign beyond what I can envisage.
8. You do not have to wait until the previous player has posted his write-up before starting to play.
9. Write-ups: These can be as in depth or as brief yet informative as you wish. All writing styles are accommodated. I suggest limiting your playing time each sitting so you can do a write up after each session. That way, once you’ve finished your tenure you’ll already have your write up done.
10. Mount Suribachi must join this PBEM, but not until he's finished his write-up for his WRE reign.
11. There is to be no incursion through Italy further North than the Capua & Tarrentum North borders. Further incursion into Italy MUST be from the North going South.
12. The Spirit of the House Rules – you can see that these rules indicate a general “spirit” of what and how the campaign is to be conducted. Please do not breach these rules and try to uphold them as best you can, they are for the benefit of you and other players and to enhance your enjoyment of the campaign.
N.B. Saves will be uploaded to: http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/ by using http://www.totalwar.org/Downloads/Up.../pbmupload.php Advise the next player in the chain of the file name via PM or email AND post the file name in the OOC thread.
*Special Task: At least ONE complete (i.e. full original strength, not retrained or merged) Elephant unit (any type except Merc) should be marched from Carthage to Rome via the following regions – Numidia, Mauretania, Baetica, Hispania, Taraconenis, Narbonensis, Transalpine Gaul & Cisalpine Gaul (the last section to Rome from Cisalpine Gaul, is up to the player). How you perform this task is up to the player. N.B. You do not have to hold or have protectorate status over these regions, only that you pass the unit through them en-route to Rome. The unit can be depleted during the fight for Rome itself but must not be Routed or Destroyed at this point. If you wish to complete this extra task, screenshots will be nice.
The Compulsory Rule
Inactivity – Players must post, in some form, within 5 days of receiving notice of their start. “Holiday” periods due to vacation, computer problems, corrupt files etc must be advised as soon as possible. Failure to post in any form (only needs to be one sentence to advise us of your status in the OOC thread), will result in the loss of tenure. The last .sav file on archive will be used for the new tenure.
Players active will still be required to post within 5 days of the commencement of there tenure in some form. Even if it’s a post on the OOC thread to ensure we know they are active. This is a rolling rule and players are required to post on the OOC at least every 5 days thereafter.
Silence can only be assumed to be inactivity. Inactivity = tenure passing to the next player on the list.
Victory!
A Major Victory = All above House Rules completed. (By the Gods! Well done, I didn’t expect that!)
A Minor Victory = House Rules 1 & 3 are completed but the Special Task is incomplete/failed/not attempted. (Well done again, you rule supreme, but how much better tasting could that victory have been….)
A Minor Loss = House Rule 1 completed, Special Task incomplete / Failed. (Darn! SO very close…and yet so far)
A Major Loss = You’ve run out of turns, no House Rules completed. OR, Player Faction destroyed. (D’oh! Why! When! Where! What! Nooooooo!)
I like the houserules, Braden 
I think requiring people to regularly post within 5 days of taking over is sensible. In fact, requiring updates every 5 days would not be unreasonable - even if just to say "still working on it".
Are you going to take responsibility for notifying people of their turn and overseeing things (esp. the order of play)? It can be useful to have one person "own" the PBM from the beginning to completion, to stop it being orphaned.
I looked at the EB victory conditions for Carthage, but they all seem territorial and so I don't think you need to take anything from them (yours are more fun).
One thing I was wondering was whether to rule out a seaborne invasion of South Italy? I know the special rule says the elephants must go by land, but I think the game would be fun if the war in general took that direction. We would have to fight through Iberia, Gaul and North Italy rather than just nip across the Med and take out the Brutii & Scipii homelands.
So the proposed houserule would be: Croton, Tarentum and Capua cannot be conquered until Rome falls to the Carthaginians first.
I think that would help keep the Scipii and Brutii in the game for longer, which has got to be good for the end-game gameplay of a long PBM. One thing I think vanilla RTW got right was forcing an epic civil war at the end for the Romans. In other words, the proposed houserule is for the later players and says "save some for us!"
I think requiring people to regularly post within 5 days of taking over is sensible. In fact, requiring updates every 5 days would not be unreasonable - even if just to say "still working on it".
Are you going to take responsibility for notifying people of their turn and overseeing things (esp. the order of play)? It can be useful to have one person "own" the PBM from the beginning to completion, to stop it being orphaned.
I looked at the EB victory conditions for Carthage, but they all seem territorial and so I don't think you need to take anything from them (yours are more fun).
One thing I was wondering was whether to rule out a seaborne invasion of South Italy? I know the special rule says the elephants must go by land, but I think the game would be fun if the war in general took that direction. We would have to fight through Iberia, Gaul and North Italy rather than just nip across the Med and take out the Brutii & Scipii homelands.
So the proposed houserule would be: Croton, Tarentum and Capua cannot be conquered until Rome falls to the Carthaginians first.
I think that would help keep the Scipii and Brutii in the game for longer, which has got to be good for the end-game gameplay of a long PBM. One thing I think vanilla RTW got right was forcing an epic civil war at the end for the Romans. In other words, the proposed houserule is for the later players and says "save some for us!"
Hmmm, I'm thinking of joining this PBM; it's been a long while since I've played RTW and I like the idea of marching the elephants over the Alps to Rome. Never played Carthage before so that might be fun too. I just want to add that I will be in
beginning of April, so until the second week of April I obviously won't be able to play (week 15). I prefer not to play before I leave for the States as I will postpone posting the write-up and knowing myself I know that postponing equals "not posting at all" (cf. my Germania write-up). So, please add me to the list. I'll reconfirm my availability later on, IF there are still lands to be conquered by then
Hope you'll find enough players!
I'll join in but make sure you put me at the end because I'm going to be gone this week and when I return I have the WRE PBM to work on.
Like your suggested addition Simon. I will incorporate it or something similar that ensures Rome is still in Romano hands by the time the Elephants arrive AND that the players still have a decent fight of it - I'll review that next week.
It will be a week or two before this begins as I'm working on the Seleucids campaign and I know there are many playng the WRE campaign who are also interested in joining but people wishing inclusion during the campaign are free to put their names forward here, now. A schedule list will be drawn up by myself.
Yes, I will be GM'ing the campaign throughout. I will notify players of impending turns and monitor responses.
The 5 day response will be a concurrent one as Simon describes and yes just Four words in the OOC forum will do just so we know you're still there and "alive".
Tricky and Zomby - you will both be on the play list. I'm going to assume Simon as well, although he hasn't said absolutely its implied well enough.
The Rules above will be edited on Monday to reflect agreed changes this weekend.
It will be a week or two before this begins as I'm working on the Seleucids campaign and I know there are many playng the WRE campaign who are also interested in joining but people wishing inclusion during the campaign are free to put their names forward here, now. A schedule list will be drawn up by myself.
Yes, I will be GM'ing the campaign throughout. I will notify players of impending turns and monitor responses.
The 5 day response will be a concurrent one as Simon describes and yes just Four words in the OOC forum will do just so we know you're still there and "alive".
Tricky and Zomby - you will both be on the play list. I'm going to assume Simon as well, although he hasn't said absolutely its implied well enough.
The Rules above will be edited on Monday to reflect agreed changes this weekend.
Braden, allow retraining of full strength elephants in the settlements that can upgrade weapons/armour? Also perhaps in Carthage itself?
Also, Simon, perhaps allow the taking of Tarentum before the destruction of Rome? (but not through Sicily) After all, Hannibal did manage to get Tarentum to defect to him and used it as his base of operations.
I'd join, but my holidays aren't long enough for trying out RTR, EB, and doing the WRE campaign... and I'm a terrible writer.
Also, Simon, perhaps allow the taking of Tarentum before the destruction of Rome? (but not through Sicily) After all, Hannibal did manage to get Tarentum to defect to him and used it as his base of operations.
I'd join, but my holidays aren't long enough for trying out RTR, EB, and doing the WRE campaign... and I'm a terrible writer.
Originally Posted by Braden:
I'm going to assume Simon as well, although he hasn't said absolutely its implied well enough.
Yes, I'm in. I'm going to assume Simon as well, although he hasn't said absolutely its implied well enough.
You can place me as you like in the ordering.Notes and other Updates:
@ Tiberius – the rule regarding retraining/merging of Elephants will not change. I don’t want to make an exception to this and I don’t feel that Elephant units need retraining to gain armour or weapon upgrades. The aim of the rule is to make it hard for the player to complete the special task and I envisage the Elephant unit in question to come from Carthage, have virtually all the upgrades possible and maybe even an armoured unit by the time this task is started by the players. I hope that explanation is ok.
Player list – We’re getting a good player list now. With Nine potential players (including myself). I’ll give this thread until next week before finalising the player list. So far we have:
Simon_Appleton
Dutch_Guy
Menelmacar
Zomby_Woof
Mount_Surbibachi
Tricky_Lady
Yakobu
TinCow
Starting sequence – I am considering breaking with tradition and allowing another player other than myself to actually start. I was thinking of either Simon Appleton or Dutch Guy…….for no other reason than to break with tradition.
Rules updates – please note the updates to the House Rules above. These incorporate several suggestions from this thread.
@ Tiberius – the rule regarding retraining/merging of Elephants will not change. I don’t want to make an exception to this and I don’t feel that Elephant units need retraining to gain armour or weapon upgrades. The aim of the rule is to make it hard for the player to complete the special task and I envisage the Elephant unit in question to come from Carthage, have virtually all the upgrades possible and maybe even an armoured unit by the time this task is started by the players. I hope that explanation is ok.
Player list – We’re getting a good player list now. With Nine potential players (including myself). I’ll give this thread until next week before finalising the player list. So far we have:
Simon_Appleton
Dutch_Guy
Menelmacar
Zomby_Woof
Mount_Surbibachi
Tricky_Lady
Yakobu
TinCow
Starting sequence – I am considering breaking with tradition and allowing another player other than myself to actually start. I was thinking of either Simon Appleton or Dutch Guy…….for no other reason than to break with tradition.
Rules updates – please note the updates to the House Rules above. These incorporate several suggestions from this thread.
Originally Posted by Braden:
Starting sequence – I am considering breaking with tradition and allowing another player other than myself to actually start. I was thinking of either Simon Appleton or Dutch Guy…….for no other reason than to break with tradition.
The first reign should be very short - isn't the king already 65? I'm happy to kick things off or to let someone else take on the opening cameo role. Starting sequence – I am considering breaking with tradition and allowing another player other than myself to actually start. I was thinking of either Simon Appleton or Dutch Guy…….for no other reason than to break with tradition.
A priority should be finding a second player who is ready to pick up the campaign immediately and playout a fairly long reign (the heir will probably be in their late 40s or early 50s). I took the second turn in Swordmaster's abortive Carthage PBM, so it would be better if someone else did.
*ANNOUNCEMENT*
The new campaign PBeM for Carthage, entitled "Horns of the Bull", will start on Monday.
Counter to what I initially proposed I will take the first go myself purely as its a short tenure. This is the play list, in order:
Dutch_Guy
Zomby_Woof
Simon_Appleton
Menelmacar
Mount_Surbibachi
Yakobu
Tricky_Lady
TinCow
Please post in the next few days if there is any issues with this schedule.
Please remember the 5 day rule.
The new campaign PBeM for Carthage, entitled "Horns of the Bull", will start on Monday.
Counter to what I initially proposed I will take the first go myself purely as its a short tenure. This is the play list, in order:
Dutch_Guy
Zomby_Woof
Simon_Appleton
Menelmacar
Mount_Surbibachi
Yakobu
Tricky_Lady
TinCow
Please post in the next few days if there is any issues with this schedule.
Please remember the 5 day rule.
Raring to go !!
P.S. Tricky Lady, we been swapped round ??
P.S. Tricky Lady, we been swapped round ??
I need to be moved further back. I'm still involved with the Reunification PBM and I want at least a little break between my write-up and my new PBM.
I'm going to be inheriting the reunification PBM from Zomby_Woof, so I think I need to be bumped down the list after him.
I suggest propelling Yakobu to the top of the list (after Braden and maybe with Tricky_Lady?) - when someone is "raring to go", it's always good to capitalise on that enthusiasm! Everyone ahead of him has some other commitments - Mount and Dutch_guy are still working on their write-ups for that campaign; Menelmacar should be busy with the Seleucid PBM.
I suspect the second reign will be a tough but enjoyable one. If Yakobu does not want it, maybe he could go third and Braden take it on (along with the 3 turns of the first reign)?
I suggest propelling Yakobu to the top of the list (after Braden and maybe with Tricky_Lady?) - when someone is "raring to go", it's always good to capitalise on that enthusiasm! Everyone ahead of him has some other commitments - Mount and Dutch_guy are still working on their write-ups for that campaign; Menelmacar should be busy with the Seleucid PBM.
I suspect the second reign will be a tough but enjoyable one. If Yakobu does not want it, maybe he could go third and Braden take it on (along with the 3 turns of the first reign)?
@ Yakobu,
The change round was deliberate. If you were worried about following Tricky_Lady, now nervous will she be to be following YOU?!
You have been bumped up to 2nd now though – if this is a problem please advise ASAP.
(Evil ain’t I?)
@Simon & Zomby
Ok, problems noted and I’ve adjusted the running schedule below. I’ve started several games as play-tests and it appears that although the Faction Leader for Carthage starts at 65 year of age, he is not dying as fast as some people have encountered. Over three games I’ve tested he’s lived for an average of 3-5 years (6-10 turns). Oh, and VH does make life “interesting”!
Braden
Yakobu
Tricky_Lady
TinCow
Menelmacar
Zomby_Woof
Simon_Appleton
Mount_Surbibachi
Dutch_Guy
Please note that as each tenure is a full reign of a faction leader each tenure should be quite long. There is NO pressure to run through the game as fast as possible and the only “pressure” is to post something every 5 days so we know you’re still “active” – it doesn’t even need to be a report of any kind.
Still aiming at starting on the 3rd of April officially.
The change round was deliberate. If you were worried about following Tricky_Lady, now nervous will she be to be following YOU?!
You have been bumped up to 2nd now though – if this is a problem please advise ASAP.
(Evil ain’t I?)
@Simon & Zomby
Ok, problems noted and I’ve adjusted the running schedule below. I’ve started several games as play-tests and it appears that although the Faction Leader for Carthage starts at 65 year of age, he is not dying as fast as some people have encountered. Over three games I’ve tested he’s lived for an average of 3-5 years (6-10 turns). Oh, and VH does make life “interesting”!
Braden
Yakobu
Tricky_Lady
TinCow
Menelmacar
Zomby_Woof
Simon_Appleton
Mount_Surbibachi
Dutch_Guy
Please note that as each tenure is a full reign of a faction leader each tenure should be quite long. There is NO pressure to run through the game as fast as possible and the only “pressure” is to post something every 5 days so we know you’re still “active” – it doesn’t even need to be a report of any kind.
Still aiming at starting on the 3rd of April officially.
Thread Ratings provided by
Thread Ratings (Lite) -
vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2025 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2025 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2025 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO