Suggestions for v0.8

[Corinthian Hoplite]

Thanks for the replies dudes

[Tellos Athenaios]

Maybe it has already been sugested, but anyway: will the pantodapoi skin files be changed, so that they appear correctly in the game?
I mean, in game, I can see that they've got spears - yes, but these are located where suppodsedly the right half of the shield should appear and not in their right hands.

[Orb]

Suggestion:

More nudity, and Samuel L. Jackson does the voices...
You can hear the "motherlovin' Carthaginians" now...

[Simmons]

Maybe it has already been sugested, but anyway: will the pantodapoi skin files be changed, so that they appear correctly in the game?
I mean, in game, I can see that they've got spears - yes, but these are located where suppodsedly the right half of the shield should appear and not in their right hands.

This screenshot is from the Eastern Kingdoms Preview from june I would assume the other factions Pantodapoi have been reskinned as well

And some reskins:

Pantodapoi - Hayasdan

[Tellos Athenaios]

Well, then, never mind....

[C.LVCIANVS]

AVE!


I have downloaded the EB 7.04 from the site, and after a month, I must say that's the best I've ever played. It's a beta, but is simply better than many others finished mods for RTW. Strategy, languages, ships, traits and ancillaries, building system, the wonderful map, unit models, factions... EVERYTHING IS AWESOME. Congratulations. Waiting for the 1.5 rome version.
I've got some little questions: First cohorts with eagle bearers will be avaiable?
The naval system will be divided in transport and war ships? And naval fighting will become more interesting?
Siege weapons: scorps, onagers etc. how many for each unit?
Units attributes: Gaesatae are naked! why 5 points of armour?? I think that attributes must reflect realistic unit's equipment... For every faction or culture... maybe can be balanced with their defence skill or shield values...

I like this mod so much that I can't stop modifing these things from myself...
Thanks a lot for any answer and sorry for my *BAD IS BETTER* english. I'm _ italian.

SORRY SORRY SORRY! As usual...
VALE!

[Vendayn]

Better Casse generals...the generals suck compared to other generals ingame.

[MSB]

I know this is for suggestions for v0.8, but I have a suggestion for 1.0. Mabye you could move to BI so then you can have rebels that emerge as a new faction (to simulate civil wars like in RTR 7.0) and almost unlimited factions. Also this will be the longest post I have ever placed on a forum. It incooperates a load of ideas that I thought would be historically accurate for TW games.

The population could be divided into three classes. These are peasants, middle class and upper class. There will generally be many peasants yet very few members of the upper class. These classes have some people in them who want to join the military and some that don’t. There are also two types of military unit—levy (quickly drawn up cheap militia taken from lower and middle class who may or may now want to join the military who only serve for a very short time and will automatically disband if they return home) or “professional” volunteers who are people who wanted to join the military and have had at least a small amount of training. They generally serve for up up to twenty five years before disbanding

The levy units are poorly equipped and as you have to pay for their arms and amour and are moderately expensive to recruit however they have no up keep costs yet as said will disband after about four years or if they return to their homeland. They will however rebel very easily in anger of been dragged from home and if there is a rebellion in their homeland then the chances are that they will desert to join it.

Professional volunteers are divided into the classes and require a Barracks at least at level 2 to be trained (unlike the levy who require no training facilities at all) they last (as said) for up to twenty five years before disbanding. They are recruited from the different classes of people who wish to fight. They are also more loyal than levy units. This means they will not rebel against your generals or you as you are paying them. They will however be disloyal like any other unit if their homeland is rebelling and may desert and join the homeland rebel course.

The peasant “professional” units can generally only afford basic training and weapons so have poor discipline and morale, but due to their hard life style they generally have very good stamina and rarely tire. Peasant units can rarely be trained passed the level 2 Barracks stage as they cannot afford to be trained beyond this stage.

The middle class “professional” units can generally afford good weapons armour and training up to the large barracks stage. They usually have (depending on the amount of training) good morale and average stamina. This can be optimized with more training at larger barracks facilities.

The upper class “professional” units can afford the best weapons armour and equipment, they can be superbly trained and due to their class have some of the best morale of all troops yet as they are used to doing little except paper work and money counting have some of the poorest stamina as well. Their morale and stamina can be optimized with further training.

Also for Romans when Marian units disband (for a pention) the units must be payed double their up keep costs.

This three class style of working has effects on the economy. Each class has jobs which can be done. E.g. Peasants can become farmers (with land), farmers (without land, in some factions only land owners can join the army), builders, shopkeepers, blacksmiths, wood-workers (only in wooded areas), fishermen (only in settlements with a trading port) and ship builders (only in settlements with a military port), middle class people can become farm owners, sea traders (only in settlements with a port), land traders, shopkeepers, scholars, priests, money lenders, treasurers, architects, military trainers (only in settlements with a barracks) and tax collectors and the upper class can become estate owners, priests, settlement managers, scholars, money lenders, treasurers and they can of course just be lazy good for nothings too. These jobs provide advantages and dis-advantages. Having a large amount of tax collectors can add a huge tax bonus to the settlement while causing unrest while having lots of scholars in a settlement will cause characters to gain lots of traits and cause people to get better at their jobs yet will really not contribute anything to your economy while having lots of farmers in the settlements will increase the population growth and give farming bonus’ yet may cause (if a famine) these farmers to lose their jobs and their land. This final issue brings us on to the next issue of unemployment.

Unemployment is extremely bad. Not only does it cause people to die of starvation as they cannot afford food, but it also causes riots and other issues. It is best to try to resolve employment issues before they get really big. If a large amount of people in a settlement is unemployed then the people will riot over food killing the other classes and sometimes taking over a town! This can be cured automatically if there is a good harvest (more jobs for people on the land) or if buildings that provide jobs are built or if these people (if they own land in some factions) join the army.

The peasant class is very unstable. If there is a famine the farmers (and farm owners) lose some of their jobs and they are often the worst hit by this as they lack the money to buy food. The peasant class then slowly dies off with less and less people to work which them causes issues with the middle class who then due to further inflation cannot afford to eat so they end up becoming peasants themselves. This also courses riots (which very rarely conclude in a settlement being taken over however it is possible).

Another new idea is about culture I think that it would be a good (and historical) idea if barbarians (and all other factions) as they grab new "civilised lands" should be able to absorb the culture of the "civilised lands". This should enable them to build "civilised buildings" in those provinces and as people from the new provinces move to the home land maybe the influence of distant cultures could have an influence here too. Eventually maybe a barbarian faction could end up as a mix of two cultures with mixes of good ideas from conquered factions and their faction. The same could happen with the Greeks or Carthaginians if they were to conquer other lands. Basically the best ideas (and religions) from far away factions could end up in the homelands eventually creating a completely new culture from the mix. And yes I have said this bit before in this forum, but it may be more possible in BI?

Another new idea is about immigration. If one province is very desirable and rich the un-employed from one settlement (before rioting) try to move out of a settlement to move to another one hence increasing it’s population. You could also (like ajusting taxes) change the immigration system by disallowing or allowing more people to move. Plage can also spread as immigrants move away from the plage hence spreading it.

Also instead of a whole entire settlement revolting certain classes revolt. For example if peasants are un happy they riot and different things make different classes happier or un-happier. Also if the peasants or the middle class revolt the chances are that a rebellion would be short lived and would soon be either destroyed or would come back to the old faction in time anyway yet an upper class rebellion would be a full scale high rebellion with professional troops and good generals sometimes even creating a new splinter faction. A rebellion from hell? Also perhaps rebellions could spread from town to town (e.g. if a neighbouring town found out how easy it was to rebel it would join the rebels or rebel independantly it’s self depending on it’s own happiness)

Also it would be good if their was a way of setting up colonys on distant near or your own lands. This could be set up by a family member like a fort or by recuiting a colonising unit at a settlement. This could either be land owned by nobody (by intoducing "no mans" land to represent land un inhabited by anybody important at the time) or owned by another faction (this could be made a diplomatic option as permition to set up a colony on their lands) a tiny ammount of land surrounding the settlement is what is farmed and taxes are taken from. These colonys cannot increase in size beyond a population of say 12,000 level. Also over time forts could turn into colonys if soilders stationed their disband either when ordered to or when their service term ends. If colonys are built in "no mans" land then they create a new province all together.

Also create a very historical senate (not as a faction just as a scroll) with the correct ammount of offices as it would have been historicaly. (e.g. Two Consuls) and perhaps have Roman settlement governers elected and gernals elected two. Also have it so that Roman Generals cannot become governers and Roman Governers cannot become generals (or at least without a trait).

I am sorry if I come across as a demanding idiot, but I think that these ideas would add a new feel of complexity to the game even though they would probably be hard to do. I am sorry if I come across as an idiot. Sorry sorry sorry.

[Foot]

Unfortunately Matthius, most of your suggestions are impossible to implement due to hardcoding.

As for BI and extra faction slots, as TA has already stated due to the amount of work involved it is incredibly unlikely that we will ever go the way of RTR 7 and have the 21st faction as an auxiliary one.

Foot

[cunctator]

AVE!
I have downloaded the EB 7.04 from the site, and after a month, I must say that's the best I've ever played. It's a beta, but is simply better than many others finished mods for RTW. Strategy, languages, ships, traits and ancillaries, building system, the wonderful map, unit models, factions... EVERYTHING IS AWESOME. Congratulations. Waiting for the 1.5 rome version.
I've got some little questions: First cohorts with eagle bearers will be avaiable?
The naval system will be divided in transport and war ships? And naval fighting will become more interesting?
Siege weapons: scorps, onagers etc. how many for each unit?
Units attributes: Gaesatae are naked! why 5 points of armour?? I think that attributes must reflect realistic unit's equipment... For every faction or culture... maybe can be balanced with their defence skill or shield values...

1. Due to the 255 model limit and 500 units limits we can unfortunately not have many officers per faction or all desired units. However I plan to make a minimod once we have released 0.8 that adds marian and augustan first cohorts and the whole captured/lost mechanism back into the mod.

2. There will be cheaper unarmed transport ships in future but it is hardcoded if and how many units a ship can transport.

3. Still has to be balanced, current sugestions are around 8 for scorpions and 1-2 for heavy stone projectors. But it's somehwat tricky to balance since the number of engines stays the same for all unitsizes.

4. Gaesatae armour values are reflecting their helmet with Cheek Guards ( 4 points), not sure where No. 5 comes from. The values for each piece of equippment are the same for all factions.

Also have it so that Roman Generals cannot become governers and Roman Governers cannot become generals (or at least without a trait).

The strict division between military and civil duties for leading officials of the state was a very alien concept for most of roman history. Republican and principate gouvernors usually commanded all troops in their provinces.

[Corinthian Hoplite]

The 5th armour point probably comes from any bracers or greaves they wear

[C.LVCIANVS]

The 5th armour point probably comes from any bracers or greaves they wear

ERR...
Sorry, maybe I didn't count the armour upgrades that time... but now I understand the unit's defence system... 4 points per helmet, great.. !
Ok, seeing the other's unit equipment all becomes clear...
Thanks!

[Ludens]

Hello Matthius, it would be great if your ideas could be implemented, but unfortunatly they cannot. There is only so much modders can do. However, the EB team has worked on a more complex senate (through character traits).

[MSB]

This was origionally posted by Cunctator

The strict division between military and civil duties for leading officials of the state was a very alien concept for most of roman history. Republican and principate governors usually commanded all troops in their provinces.

What I meant was that the goveners could command troops yet were stationary in the province that they were elected for hence for they could not move and only command troops in that province. To conquer other lands a general would be needed to command troop away from the borders.

Oh well if my ideas can't work then I will forward them to the CA. They will probably say no but hey there is a tiny chance and when I say tiny I mean tiny! Hopefully they will take them on!

Oh and finally can I request the CA website adress please. They may have contact infomation on it.

[Markus_Aurelius]

I dont belive that what you say is entirely impossible. I know that in RTR (I hat comparing RTR with EB) the rebel generals had a trait were they could not leave there cities, because it took there movement points away. So what if you give a trait the takes away a generals movement points when you leave him as governor of the city for.....lets say a 3-5 years or something. This way governors can only be governors of there province and they can only command a garrison. That means that generals generally stay in the field and governors do not become generals.

[Sdragon]

I can see it being really annoying losing your generals this way. Getting them stuck when you need them elsewhere. I can just imagine all those family members in the academy in Rome I always forget about end up being stuck there permanently.

[Foot]

I dont belive that what you say is entirely impossible. I know that in RTR (I hat comparing RTR with EB) the rebel generals had a trait were they could not leave there cities, because it took there movement points away. So what if you give a trait the takes away a generals movement points when you leave him as governor of the city for.....lets say a 3-5 years or something. This way governors can only be governors of there province and they can only command a garrison. That means that generals generally stay in the field and governors do not become generals.

The strict division between military and civil duties for leading officials of the state was a very alien concept for most of roman history. Republican and principate gouvernors usually commanded all troops in their provinces.

So though it can be done. No.

Remember, history first.

Foot

[Teleklos Archelaou]

I know that in RTR (I hat comparing RTR with EB) the rebel generals had a trait were they could not leave there cities, because it took there movement points away.

Haven't we done that since our first release, after we got tired of seeing the rebel generals leave their cities and hide in the countryside?

[Markus_Aurelius]

all i am trying to do is just say that it can be doen, i personally wouldnt enjoy losing my generals this way either

[Darkarbiter]

I dont belive that what you say is entirely impossible. I know that in RTR (I hat comparing RTR with EB) the rebel generals had a trait were they could not leave there cities, because it took there movement points away. So what if you give a trait the takes away a generals movement points when you leave him as governor of the city for.....lets say a 3-5 years or something. This way governors can only be governors of there province and they can only command a garrison. That means that generals generally stay in the field and governors do not become generals.

Dont we have bored traits which is the complete oppisite for this?

[paullus]

i didn't even know rtr had included that trait, i don't recall it from earlier releases.

i would say the movement penalty from becoming an "attuned gov" is a nice middlish ground, i wouldn't want to see it taken any further.

[Markus_Aurelius]

What i would really like to see in the upcoming release is a bigger effect of climate on all units. An army of the Aedui would never stand a chance in a desert region when fighting the desert folke. As it is right now you could do as you please and you wouldnt notice a thing. Also desert warriors owning germans in the snow is not realistic.....

I made this post a long while back in this thread but not one person made a comment on it so i decided i would repost it. If you dont want to put this in can you at least tell me if it is possible (i am fairly sure it is).

[Ludens]

What i would really like to see in the upcoming release is a bigger effect of climate on all units. An army of the Aedui would never stand a chance in a desert region when fighting the desert folke. As it is right now you could do as you please and you wouldnt notice a thing. Also desert warriors owning germans in the snow is not realistic.....

Well, I don't know. The Ptolemaics were pretty keen on importing Galatians, who were essentially Gauls. Also the Romans seemed to do pretty well, whether they fought in the North African desert or the German forrests. Humans are very adaptable creatures than can thrive (and fight) under a variety of circumstances. However, it should be possible to add this feature through traits or through the wood, snow and desert combat modifiers.

[Obelics]

hallo, ive just becoming to find this problem annoing only now, after long playing EB:

i noticed, after a long time of enjoying play, that the two only unit that appear in the loading screen are always the corte reformata and the casse unit with scale bronze armour, are you planning of adding new units? it should be very nice, and im very courious to know how much "unit-loading-screen" have you ready (and if you have)

know this could be ridicoulous with all the new stuff are going to be relased in 0.8, but two units as i sayd are too few after a while...

thanks

[MSB]

The strict division between military and civil duties for leading officials of the state was a very alien concept for most of roman history. Republican and principate gouvernors usually commanded all troops in their provinces.

Like I have said ONCE already I mean that the Pro-Consul goveners would command troops in the province and the settlement but not command any troops else where. I read somewhere on Wikipedia that Pro-Consul (Goveners) would stay in thier province(s) and command the garrisons and troops there YET not any where else. I also read somewhere critisising RTW accurucy saying that Provinces would rarley be ruled by the generals that captured them however some generals (such as Gaius Julius Ceaser) would have. That is what I meant.

[C.LVCIANVS]

Well, I don't know. The Ptolemaics were pretty keen on importing Galatians, who were essentially Gauls. Also the Romans seemed to do pretty well, whether they fought in the North African desert or the German forrests. Humans are very adaptable creatures than can thrive (and fight) under a variety of circumstances. However, it should be possible to add this feature through traits or through the wood, snow and desert combat modifiers.

Very interesting!
Maybe it's possible to add traits, moral bonus or experience to generals or troops who fought in different climates in many campaigns. A veteran unit composed by soldiers who fought in germania and also north africa would be more skilled, resistant and adaptable than inexpert recruits at their first campaign far away their homeland; A man who saw enemies like elephants and bezerkers during his career won't get panicking in front of chariots. He knows that only gods are invincible.

[Markus_Aurelius]

i just did some tinkering with the export descr unit txt file and ajusted the combat bonuses for each faction. I made the Greeks(Koinon and macedin) and Romans rather decent in all categorys but they were not extreme in either one. The gauls were good in woods and snow as well as brits. All desert factions of course were better fighters in deserts. I made the germans and the Dacians Very good at fighting in the forests. The sarmatians were rather well rounded, a little better than greeks and romans in snow but everything else was much the same. Carthage was better in was also well rounded but its winter fighting is poorer than the romans and greeks. The iberians were much the same as the Carthaginians but with less desert capabilities and better snow, forest and shrub. Oh yeah i also the romans a little better in plain grassy territory. It only makes sense that a faction would be the best suited to the terrain in its home province. The gauls did have great problems with the heat when they arrived in asia minor and did not adapt for quite some time. I think that it may be better to portray this trough traits. Well that is of course if you are willing to spend the extra time to do these things. I am capable of modding these things myself so i wont be to dissapointed if they were not included

[Gruver]

A cavalry unit charge should break up the formation but at a high loss in troops.

[paullus]

it sounds like an interesting idea to make more variation in climate combat abilities, but this:

The gauls did have great problems with the heat when they arrived in asia minor and did not adapt for quite some time.

is not true, at least as far as we know historically. i'd be interested to know where you came up with this--a book, an article, a guess? you are aware that it is regularly hotter in parts of gaul (especially factoring in humidity) than in central anatolia or northern greece?

and as another note, i might give the heavier plain grass bonus to the greeks instead of the romans, because of the assistance terrain could give to the cohesion and mobility of a phalanx.

[Slartibardfast]

Units attributes: Gaesatae are naked! why 5 points of armour?? I think that attributes must reflect realistic unit's equipment... For every faction or culture... maybe can be balanced with their defence skill or shield values...

Not a bad point!

Last night I had to deal with a two Gaesatae unit rebel army.

Three units of cavalry used all their javelins on them, and my unit of archers used all their arrows on them.

The only casuality either rebel unit suffered (ie: 1 ) before hand to hand was when my own Gaestatae unit lobbed their javelins before charging.

600 odd javelins and 350 odd arrows into 121 drugged up naked men and 1 casualty.

In 15 years as a professional Musician I never had any drug that good!