Suggestions for v0.8

[khelvan]

We will no doubt continue to add units until we have reached the 500 unit limit. We already have 255 planned models.

[edyzmedieval]

We will no doubt continue to add units until we have reached the 500 unit limit. We already have 255 planned models.

Oh my god...EB rules. :shock:

[khelvan]

This is nothing new, we've had 255 planned models for about a year.

[edyzmedieval]

Wow...Long live EB and it's team.

[mcsquared]

I have been playing the beta EB for the past few weeks and would like to congratulate the EB team for an absolutely excellent job! The one suggestion I would like to to offer concerns the EB map. There are many little islands that are "invisible" to both land troops and ships. I understand that for realism purposes that these little islands are included on the map. However, since they are "not there" from a player perspective and that they they are too small to have anything but a square shape, they detract from the overall appearance of the map, I would suggest removing most of them.

[Dayve]

I just installed RTR 6.0 again to play whilst i wait the next EB version with the added units and more polishedness and whatnot... I can't play it. EB has made RTR obsolete even though it is still a beta... When it's released fully i can see RTR becoming entirely obsolete, even its future builds.

They're quite hostile to EB fans over at the RTR forums... Just mentioned a while ago that although RTR is more finished, it is second best. The response i got was something like "We don't f** need EB fanboys here." ...But it's true... RTR IS second best now that EB is here... RTR isn't even realistic when compared to EB, but anywho, RTR is unplayable for me now.

Any rough estimation on the date for the 1.5 port yet?

[Teleklos Archelaou]

You'll get no precise dates or even estimates of dates (for release of the build), but I think we have just about reached the tipping point where we move all of our efforts from porting to adding new stuff to the build now and correcting some things that we wanted to wait till after the port to handle. At least that is what seems to be the case from my point of view.

[edyzmedieval]

I hate RTR. I don't even wanna go to their stupid forums....

Anyways, thanks Teleklos. That's awesome news.

[mcsquared]

As a person who has played BOTH RTR and EB, I find both games very enjoyable. Yes, they are different but I believe that that is a good thing in that there are different experiences to be had playing both games. I do not make comparsions and will not criticize the hard work that BOTH RTR and EB people have done to give us these improvements in RTW at no cost to us! However, because of all the fun I have had playing both RTR and EB, I will tell you one game I will NEVER play again: original RTW!

[MaximianusBR]

That's REALLY important to improve the game quality:

*Make the gaesatae a litle weaker, they are really overpowered...

*Make the Kleruchoi Agemata weaker too, they are REALLY overpowered!!! maybe you can do it by make then units litle, maybe 120-160 in Huge, now they have 240!!!

*Reduce the Elephants javelins weakness.

*Put Barbarian walls in the game...

You guys will change it?

[orwell]

The gaesatae will remain the same, they're supposed to be that powerful. I think the agemata will see a unit size reduction though. I couldn't say for the rest.

[Blitzkrieg]

First off, Europa Barbarorum is the epitome of excellence!
I can not wait for the release of v0.8.
I do; however, have a few suggestions...
-have unit cards for all the units throughout the mod
-enable homeland romani provinces in southern italy
-include dynamic reform triggers. It's tough waiting 660 turns for the Gaius Marius Reforms

p.s. you guys should work for CA

[khelvan]

The elephants will be adjusted.

The walls problem will be addressed when we can define our own cultures. I.e. with 1.5.

Please don't bash other mods here, or other mod teams, or other mod's fans. You can talk about EB and how good we are without comparing us to other mods, though I know the tendency is there to do so.

Modders respect each other, and we would appreciate the enjoyment of our work without feeling the need to say unfavorable things about others. If you must compare, please do so in a clinical way.

[MaximianusBR]

and the kleruchoi agemata will be reduced?

[edyzmedieval]

If you must compare, please do so in a clinical way.

Be sure to make a spelling check to compare your writing. It's cynical.

Wasn't the Kleruochoi Agemata powerful? The Ptolemaioi were experts in Phalanxes.

[Krusader]

Be sure to make a spelling check to compare your writing. It's cynical.

Wasn't the Kleruochoi Agemata powerful? The Ptolemaioi were experts in Phalanxes.

The Kleruchoi Agemata represents the elite of the Ptolemaic phalanxes.

The Basilikon Agemata represents the elite of the elites again.

No one has complained on the Basilikon Agemata so much it seems.

Although with what units have you faced the Kleruchoi Agemata with? In the next update the Maks, Seleukids and Pontos will get some new toys to "even the elite phalanx balance" with.

[MaximianusBR]

Wasn't the Kleruochoi Agemata powerful? The Ptolemaioi were experts in Phalanxes.

they are the elite but should have 160 soldiers not 240 in HUGE...no elite is so numberous!

[edyzmedieval]

they are the elite but should have 160 soldiers not 240 in HUGE...no elite is so numberous!

True, it was really expensive to maintain large numbers, but the Ptolemies had the agriculture very developed, which gained them huge revenues, along with trading.

@Krusader

Awesome. I can't wait.

[MaximianusBR]

The Kleruchoi Agemata represents the elite of the Ptolemaic phalanxes.

The Basilikon Agemata represents the elite of the elites again.

No one has complained on the Basilikon Agemata so much it seems.

Although with what units have you faced the Kleruchoi Agemata with? In the next update the Maks, Seleukids and Pontos will get some new toys to "even the elite phalanx balance" with.

they're cause GREAT damage to my more numberous Principes, Hastati, some Triarii, numidian placeholder...good units....

they will be correct with 160 soldiers...that would be right...

[Avicenna]

Leaving the KH as weaklings waiting to be squashed?

The Gaesatae are meant to be a challenge and can be countered easily if you know how to counter them. Elephants are supposed to be very weak to javelins.

There's already a discussion about barbarian walls. They're going to be put in.

[Avicenna]

Could poison be added? Read a bit about poisons recently. Poison could make the troop morale lower, and any unit hit would eventually die from poison. The Scythians especially (and Indians, but they're not in EB) were famous for having their feared arrows: they caused maximum pain, gruesome deaths, were painted in a snake-like design and had barbed arrowheads. They also had remarkable accuracy and had a range of over 1600 feet with their composite bows. This should easily outrange any normal foot archers.

The Greeks also used poison, with many mentions of it in Herakles' Twelve Labours, the Iliad, the Odyssey and other myths. In fact, almost all the peoples at the time used poisons, apart from the Romans (at least as far as we know). The Nubians with their poison javelins, poison arrows of the Kenyans, snake poison of the Libyans, to name just a few. Also, the barbarians (so probably the Gauls, Germanians, Britons and Iberians, but no mention of them directly) including the Getae, Dacians, Skythians, Turks (peoples from Asia Minor at least) all used poisons. Even the Indians used poisonous arrows, which were just as gruesome and feared as the Skythian poison arrows. The author even says that Alexander's armies feared the Indian poisons more than the elephants, as a small cut was almost a guaranteed death unless a Hindu medic that was used to poisons was present. The Skythians even managed to defeat an Alexandrian army with their arrows, firing 20 per minute with deadly accuracy.

[orwell]

very interesting, but, could it be added? If your character has just a single hit point, then you couldn't subtract from that unless it registers decimals, and even then, do scripts work on the battlefield?

[MaximianusBR]

the poison can counter the phisician, doctor, chirugeon bonus...but it have to be expensive to give balance to the game...

[Avicenna]

Death if hit at all, but not instant death. The poisons that caused swift death were reserved for hunting. The gruesome, excruciatingly painful poisons were left for war, to demoralise the enemy. 3000 Harmatelians ran out of their settlement in an attempt to defeat Alexander with their poison arrows, but the Hindu physicians of Alexander knew how to cure the infection caused. They immediately surrendered. This shows that the poison was incredibly scary, and would have caused most armies to run, otherwise they wouldn't face Alexander.

[edyzmedieval]

including the Getae, Dacians

It's the same thing. Getai used by Greeks, Dacians by Romans.
Anyhow, it's an interesting proposition. But how could it be included? I kinda don't see how, if it's possible.

[khelvan]

We have already considered, and rejected, the use of poison. There is not enough evidence to suggest that it was used on a consistent, large-scale basis by anyone.

[edyzmedieval]

We have already considered, and rejected, the use of poison. There is not enough evidence to suggest that it was used on a consistent, large-scale basis by anyone.

May I ask what have you not considered?

Long live EB.

[paullus]

Are you making any map/AI traits changes in light of nikolai's research?

[Avicenna]

Well there's accounts by Herodotus, Frontinius, Pliny, Pausanias, Plutarch, Quintus of Smyrna, Strabo, Ovid, Silius Italicus, Homer (indirectly: describes wounds caused by arrows with snake venom accurately, also giving symptoms), Virgil and others that you probably wouldn't have heard of. Poison is always mentioned in the Iliad, sometimes in the Odyssey, and in myths. Cerberus has poisonous drool, Odysseus, Achilles, Hercules, Paris and Philoctetes used poison weapons, and the Greeks had accurate descriptions of the poisonous plants, where to find them and the symptoms if you had been poisoned. Assassination by poisoning was common as well, with offers to Romans to poison Pyrrhus and Ariminius. The Greeks poisoned the water supply of the Kirrhans with hellebore. Military tacticians always advise armies to camp in healthy areas, obviously having had a history of receiving or giving water that was contaminated. The ancients were very much used to using poison in warfare. Do you think it was a coicidence that when the Spartans were losing in the Peloponnesian War, with their offer of ceasefire was rejected, that Athens suddenly broke out with a plage from its port? The first thing that Athens did was to accuse Sparta for this plague. The Indians also had whole guides on how to poison the enemy and how to counter these poisons, so if the Greeks didn't know about poisons they surely would after having travelled to India and been on the receiving end.

Do you still want more evidence?

edit: add Livy to that list.

[orwell]

For the sake of arguement, if it were agreed that it would be added, how would it be? Countering ancillaries who heal after the battle is the only possible way I see it. Everything I've seen on scripting says it can't touch the battle elements of the game, only the units, unless you were to create a specific unit that does no actual damage, but adds a value to the number of dead enemy after the battle. Even then, isn't the minimum damage permitted by the system 1 hit point? Theoritically, to represent poisoning a city I suppose you could, through dynamic requirements, spawn a spy that has the plague inside a city, unless the number of additional characters like spy and diplomat can be extended? Could any actual modder comment on even the possiblity of the idea, regardless of it probably not going into EB, if just for balancing sake if nothing else.