Suggestions for v0.8

[MSB]

Power hungry bodyguard-This man has a power hungry bodyguard who would do almost anything to get this man's power for himself. -9 to Personal Sercurity and increases the chance of the general getting the "Distrusts his bodyguards" trait.

These look fairly good but I don't know much about whether a general's bodyguard can be altered like that. Otherwise, great.

I have just one point to make about that one. perhaps there could be an ancilliary that was called a power hungry bodyguard but IF the An. was as you described it then no self-respecting general would keep such a man, in fact such a man would be killed. Perhaps instead the Ancilliary would simply be power hungry in general and is actually leeching onto the general he is attached to trying to move up the political/military ladder. Basically the same effect but maybe only a -3 or -5 to personal security, not so drastic.

Owing to what Tanit said I'm going to change it slightly:

Power Hungry Manipulative Bodyguard: This man has a power hungry bodyguard who would do almost anything to get this man's power for himself. Normally in this case he would be killed, but this bodyguard is also a smooth talker and liar, this General has no idea what he is like. -5 to Personal Sercurity and increases the chance of the general getting the "Trusts his bodyguards" traits.

And a few more trait suggestions:
Trusts his bodyguard: This man puts his trust in his bodyguard in times of need. +1 Personal Sercurity

And then perhaps you could put some more in between traits that give +2 personal sercurity, another one +3 till you get to:

Adores his bodyguard: This man has an obsession with his bodyguard and every single man in it to the point of (at times) even having love affairs with his men. Of course this keeps him safe from his true enemies, but what about enemies in the bodyguard. +1 to personal sercurity +20% to bodyguard size.

The amount of sercurity is decreased in the last one because he trust his bodyguard too much.

And another one:

Distrust's his bodyguard-This man has not trust of his bodyguard. He has such a lack of trust that he keeps it away from him most of the time. This opens him for assassination by his true enemies. -2 to Personal Sercurity, -20% off the general's bodyguard size.

And then you could turn it into a trait line having a series of traits each one decreasing into personal sercurity till eventually

Terrified of his bodyguard: This man hates his bodyguard above all things and in terrified that they might turn on him to. He keeps them away from him at all times and only allows them near him in a battle. This of course opens him up to his true enemies. -4 personal sercurity, -50% to the general's bodyguard size.

And another one:

Fought with assassins: This man has fought with men trying to kill him. He was sucessful, but now he may put more trust in his bodyguard. Game effects: Increases the chance of the man getting the trusts his bodyguard trait or if he already has the trait the distrusts his bodyguard trait.

Another set:

Partially blind: This man cannot see very well. Of course he tries to hide it from the general public. -3 Command -2 Management -1 Personal Sercurity

Fully blind: This man cannot see a thing. Somebody could wave a large flag in front of his face and he would never even see it. Of course this has an immense effect on his life being unable to see. -6 Command -5 Management -3 Influence -2 Personal Sercurity

And finally:

Up the (racing teams name): The man supports this chariot (racing teams name) racing team. This mans love of one team makes those who support the other teams a bit shifty. +1 influence +3 to Unrest.

And some ancillaries (for Romans):

Charioteer-A charioteer is an expert in managing to control a weighty chariot around corners. He understand everything about them and he also can give lots of advice in how to stop them. +1 Command when fighting chariots.

And to join a general in Rome around 110BC:

Gaius Marius: Famous Roman military reformer who put the Roman army on a proffesional footing. His immense performances in battle and an understanding of his new military machine enable him to help a general command armies with immense skill. +3 Command.

Or perhaps Gaius Marius could be a character up for adoption/marriage around about 130BC-120BC. Perhaps whether they adopt Gaius or not could effect the Marius Reforms and when they happen. No adoption - a long time till reforms, an adoption or marrage reforms very soon! Although I wouln't recommnend that you tell anybody if you were to impliment that. It would make the game unfair.

The Ovile ("sheepfold")

One of the few structures that exist on the Campus Maritus, the Ovile is a compound filled with barriers and aisles, the kind used to pen livestock. This is where elections to the various Roman magistracies are held.The voters are herded down the aisles in separate blocks according to wealth and status. To vote for Tribunes, for instance, the voters would be divided according to tribe. Every vote had to be delivered in person at the Ovile, ensuring that only the most wealthy Romans abroad could afford the trip. The citizens assembled to vote in the same way their ancestors assembled to go to war. Just as in the days of the kings, a trumpet would be blown at daybreak to summon them to the Campus. A red flag would be flown from the Janiculum Hilly beyond the Tiber, signalling that no enemies could be seen. The citizens would then line up as though for battle, with the richest at the front and the poorest in the rear. So heavily weighted were the votes of the wealthy, that they usually served to decide the election before the poor had a chance to cast their ballots.

Lovley idea Zaknafien. Hopefully your idea(s) can get worked in.

And I am going to celebrate because this is my 50th post!

Thankyou

[MSB]

Oh and something else:

These ideas would be great if we were making our own game. Unfortunately, we're just doing a mod for a game somebody else did :)

So why don't you make your own game?!

[eadingas]

Because we're amateur modders, not a game-making company :)

[MSB]

Because we're amateur modders, not a game-making company :)

Yes I agree that you are, but from humble beginnings an mighty empire can grow. The EB Team could try to make a profesional game that contains everybody's brilliant ideas to create a Total War style game that is in no way associated with the CA. This would be easy with all of the EB teams immaginations. Eventually you could even undermine the CA and (if you get enough revenue to) buy them out so that you can change the Total War Series and make it to historical and gameplay perfection. One day the EB team could perhaps even contol the entire real time strat (or at least the ones that take place in the past) gaming industry. All of that power in EB's hands equals a perfect world of ideal gaming.

Of course this would probably never happen, but hey! It's a good idea and worth a try. A publisher with any sence would publish a game created by the EB team due to it's brilliant gameplay that completly make you feel like you were there and people would most certainly buy it. Sell them all off a £29.99 and soon you will all be millionares!

[Christianus]

Hi!

Pardon my disturbance of the tread Only wanted to say that my great wish for EB is to have the city of THESSALONIKI included on the map:)

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Sorry, but it can't happen. There are lots of greek cities we would like to include, but we don't have enough province/city slots. We thought about it, but Salonika isn't big enough yet at the game's start (272bc) and other cities elsewhere were more important. Don't feel bad - lots of important places can't be included either. But that's one that we didn't feel was very close esp. with Pella being nearby and the capital.

[Geoffrey S]

Yes I agree that you are, but from humble beginnings an mighty empire can grow. The EB Team could try to make a profesional game that contains everybody's brilliant ideas to create a Total War style game that is in no was associated with the CA. This would be easy with all of the EB teams immaginations. Eventually you could even undermine the CA and (if you get enough revenue to) buy them out so that you can change the Total War Series and make it to historical and gameplay perfection. One day the EB team could perhaps even contol the entire real time strat (or at least the ones that take place in the past) gaming industry. All of that power in EB's hands equals a perfect world of ideal gaming.

Of course this would probably never happen, but hey! It's a good idea and worth a try. A publisher with any sence would publish a game created by the EB team due to it's brilliant gameplay that completly make you feel like you were there and people would most certainly buy it. Sell them all off a £29.99 and soon you will all be millionares!

Who would actually code the game, and why would EB modders actually want to spend their lives doing this? Remember, modders are amateurs who do this in their spare time next to other jobs or studying. Starting a company and creating a new engine is way out of almost any mods league.

[MSB]

Who would actually code the game, and why would EB modders actually want to spend their lives doing this? Remember, modders are amateurs who do this in their spare time next to other jobs or studying. Starting a company and creating a new engine is way out of almost any mods league.

Fair point .

[eadingas]

Well frankly, I wouldn't mind working for a gaming company if I could do what I do for EB... unfortunately there's not many companies willing to employ a guy who just researches stuff on the internet and comes up with weird ideas for others to implement ;)

[MSB]

Well frankly, I wouldn't mind working for a gaming company if I could do what I do for EB... unfortunately there's not many companies willing to employ a guy who just researches stuff on the internet and comes up with weird ideas for others to implement ;)

I would employ you! Thing is I'm just odd and I'm not a big gaming boss so I can't.

[MSB]

After watching "Rome" on BBC1 last night I though of some more trait (lines):

Poet for Romans (this was in vanilla, but I think that it should be negative for Romans): This man is a poet who resorts to writing epic poems and reciting them in public! Nothing a true Roman would ever do! It's modern equivalent would be a monarch becoming a pole dancer! And of course this act leaves him exposed for assassination too - theatres don't have great sercurity! -4 influence and -3 personal sercurity.

Obsessed by the Beauty of the Arts: This man loves the arts above all things and has an immense taste for great things of immense beauty. This "love" of this causes him to demand more decorative buildings which are ornate. The people love his fine taste for beuty. His treasury does not! -2 Management, +2 Influence, +20% to building build times, +20 to building cost.

A few in between traits and:

Derranged by Art: This man is obsessed with the arts. So obsessed that he would perhaps even burn down a city and rob the temples to rebuild it perfectly. However his obsession would not end there. He would even be insane enough to "tame" his enemies by standing in front of the enemy army and singing. The fool! -5 managment -1 influence +50% to building build time +100% to building cost.

If the man has low enough influence, is mad and has lost enough battles he get the trait:

Enemy of Rome: This man is so useless and insane the senate have decided to declare him an enemy of Rome. It is every citizen's duty to kill this man. -10 influence, -20 personal sercurity and -8 morale for all troops under his command. Game Effects: When a general gets this trait him and a few of his troops turn rebel.

Also perhaps you could add traits for most illness' that people may have suffered at this time. This could include deafness, loss of limbs, gangrene, paralisis and Leprosy.

[Orb]

On another topic - don't the BI barbarians have a full city tree (huge cities)? Would there be a way to make EB 'barbarians' have these?

[Chuffy]

On another topic - don't the BI barbarians have a full city tree (huge cities)? Would there be a way to make EB 'barbarians' have these?

I think barbarians in 1.5 can have the ability (through modding) to build level 4 and 5 cities.

I would personally love to see it...but maybe make a sort of reform type thing. If they come into contact/conquer with enough Romans/Greeks they adapt a bit of the culture...making larger cities...Roman architects being employed to build aquaeducts etc etc.

[Orb]

I don't think they need a reform to have these level 4-5 cities, I'm fairly skeptical that the Greeks and Romans were the only ones who knew what a city was. The 'barbarians' were, ironically, better-bathed than the Romans (if I'm correct, which I might be)

[Orb]

At Matthius, many of those traits seem much too exaggerated in effect. EB has a nice system where traits combine to make up a character, rather than a character's entire stats being dominated by one trait.

[cunctator]

I don't think they need a reform to have these level 4-5 cities, I'm fairly skeptical that the Greeks and Romans were the only ones who knew what a city was. The 'barbarians' were, ironically, better-bathed than the Romans (if I'm correct, which I might be)

Can't speak about the "barbarians," but at least during the principate every tiny roman backwater garrison and small town has had it's own bathhouse. I doubt the number of public bathes was surpassed by any culture since then.

At least celts will have large lvl. 4 cities in 0.8, not sure about iberians and getai. Sweboz and nomads will still be limited to lvl. 3 cities.

[MSB]

I don't think they need a reform to have these level 4-5 cities, I'm fairly skeptical that the Greeks and Romans were the only ones who knew what a city was. The 'barbarians' were, ironically, better-bathed than the Romans (if I'm correct, which I might be)

At Matthius, many of those traits seem much too exaggerated in effect. EB has a nice system where traits combine to make up a character, rather than a character's entire stats being dominated by one trait.

If the man has low enough influence, is mad and has lost enough battles he get the trait:

Enemy of Rome: This man is so useless and insane the senate have decided to declare him an enemy of Rome. It is every citizen's duty to kill this man. -10 influence, -20 personal sercurity and -8 morale for all troops under his command. Game Effects: When a general gets this trait him and a few of his troops turn rebel.

Ok lets get rid of that trait then. Mabye I was a little over the top with that one... So perhaps if all of the traits I ever suggested were to have a slightly less influence, management or command bonus/penalty then it would not be so extravagant.

Orb you are correct in saying that the Barbarians were better bathed. They washed with soap. Something that the Romans and Greeks never would use.

Can I just suggest that the Celts, the Germans and other Barbarians don't have the word "barbarian" in the culture name. It should be changed to something a little more like what they would call themselves. Don't ask me to give examples. I have no idea what they would historically call themselves!

[Trithemius]

Can I just suggest that the Celts, the Gemans and other Barbarians don't have the word "barbarian" in the culture name. It should be changed to something a little more like what they would call themselves. Don't ask me to give examples. I have no idea what they would historically call themselves!

What's a suitable pan-Eurasian equivalent?

[Tanit]

I was thinking about the Carthaginians the other day and I had a couple of thoughts.

They would not call themselves Quarthadastim. I could be mistaken, but as Quarhadast (The true name of Carthage) meant 'new city' in Phoenician then Quarthadastim would be something like 'People of the new city' I don't know for sure, but I would like to know why EB wants them to call themselves that.

Phoenician colonies. It was mentioned on another thread that it should be possible for Carthaginians to recruit at least their militia citizen phalanx from any city with a Phoenician colony. After some research I discovered that this was, pretty much, true. The Phoenicians would colonize places and then the colonists, still being Carthaginian citizens, would, in times of need, form citizen armies much like those that fought invaders in North africa. Of course there was supposedly a difference between colonial citizens and homeland citizens though I couldn't find anywhere that said what the difference was. I suspect this difference would have had something to do with local influence. The ability to recruit these citizens after building a colony would help in areas where Carthage can't build any troops, like in Latium for example. It's really annoying in the campaign to capture Rome and then be unable to recruit a garrison.

Carthaginian naval reforms: The Carthaginians, at the outset of the Punic war had a large number of ships partially beause they contained very small complements of armed men(marines). Partway through the Punic war the Carthaginians began outfitting their fleet with more marines and more specifically the best pick of their most skilled mercenaries. In game this would be a normal reform with the Punic fleets starting out with fewer men than they have now and then after the reform their ship complement is brought up to what it is now.

Carthaginian land forces reforms: In addition to the reforms you already have. After Hannibal had fought several battles with the Romans his men began to use Roman equipment they had captured from the defeated enemy. They took armour and weapons from the Romans but not shields so that they would not be mistaken for the enemy. It would be cool to see Iberians, Liby-phoenicians, africans and Libyans armed with Roman weapons and armour.

Libyans: It is mentioned in the accounts of the invasion of North Africa by Agathocles of Syraceuse that he convinced the Libyans to join him and that these included Libyan chariots. It is also mentioned that the Libyans were charioteers in the same way as the Balearic Islanders were slingers, it was a natural passed on speciality of the locals. Agathocles' invasion of North Africa took place approximately thirty years before the game of EB starts. There would most likely still be local Libyan charioteers and also likely mercenaries as well. The Carthaginians didn't employ them in the Punic wars, but they were still there if a brilliant Carthaginian general had known how to use them, or if an invader had been able to rouse them against their Punic masters. Also, Libyan cavalry is suggested in Polybius' account of the first punic war and the Mercenaries war. In the Punic war there is an account were he mentions the cavalry of the Carthaginians going ahead of the army and then he says that the Libyans fell back to the main army, drawing the enemy in. In the Libyan/mercenaries war, it is mentioned that the rebels received infantry and cavalry from the Libyan cities that joined them.

Xanthippus: I must protest to the way Xanthippus was portrayed inEB 0.74. He didn't arrive in North Africa until at least eighteen years into the first Punic war, and that started ten years after the start of EB. That's 56 turns! Not that the Carthaginians couldn't have hired him sooner, but he certainely wouldn't be in Africa at te start of the game. Now I understand the limitations that CA has put on EB, so if none of suggestions are plausible than the EB team has done the best they can and I approve.
Suggestion #1: Xanthippus starts on a ship with some greek mercenaries (as it was said that he came over with Greek mercenaries hired by Carthage) on his way to North Africa. This one is probably not possible but if it is then it is a good option.
Suggestion #2: Xanthippus starts as a Carthaginian general in Greece with a transport awaiting him.
Suggestion #3: The most historically accurate, though not neccesarily possible. Xanthippus starts as an eleutheroi general in Greece with traits that make him easy to bribe and a Carthaginian diplomat right nearby.

Skiffs: During the account of one of the many times in the first Punic war that Carthage rebuilt her fleet it says that they outfitted triremes, quinqueremes, and the heaviest of their skiffs. I don't know exactly what a skiff is, but its just a thought for making the Carthaginian fleet more diverse.

[khelvan]

According to the world's foremost Punic historian, the Carthaginians called themselves, alternately, Qarthadastim, Tsorim, and one other I can't recall at the moment.

[CountArach]

RE: The Naval Reforms.

I'm not sure about this one. I don't doubt the historical accuracy of it, but consider what would happen if they had won most of the naval battles in the First Punic War. They most likely would not have reformed the navy. Perhaps the only way to truly represent this would be if they had lost several crushing naval defeats vs a nation with far superior infantry (Like the Romans). I personally am not sure if this is possible (I don't think it is).

[Tanit]

RE: The Naval Reforms.

I'm not sure about this one. I don't doubt the historical accuracy of it, but consider what would happen if they had won most of the naval battles in the First Punic War. They most likely would not have reformed the navy. Perhaps the only way to truly represent this would be if they had lost several crushing naval defeats vs a nation with far superior infantry (Like the Romans). I personally am not sure if this is possible (I don't think it is).

I didn't think it was possible but I had to throw it out just in case.

According to the world's foremost Punic historian, the Carthaginians called themselves, alternately, Qarthadastim, Tsorim, and one other I can't recall at the moment.

After I wrote it and looked back at it, the name made a whole lot more sense then when I was writing it. Thanks for the source info Khelvan!

[Tanit]

I know you guys say that you work in concert with other mods, and this has probably been asked elsewhere, but, Will EB be using some of the AI enhancing features that DarthMod used? This would be great as I currently find the AI sloppy and far too easy to beat. Even on VH/VH the biggest problem to face is simply the number of rebels popping up everywhere. I personally feel that when the difficulty level says hard, then the AI should be improved, rather than just giving them more randomly appearing units.

[paullus]

According to the world's foremost Punic historian, the Carthaginians called themselves, alternately, Qarthadastim, Tsorim, and one other I can't recall at the moment.

so, just who is the world's foremost pre-Roman Punic historian?

[MSB]

Xanthippus: I must protest to the way Xanthippus was portrayed inEB 0.74. He didn't arrive in North Africa until at least eighteen years into the first Punic war, and that started ten years after the start of EB. That's 56 turns! Not that the Carthaginians couldn't have hired him sooner, but he certainely wouldn't be in Africa at te start of the game. Now I understand the limitations that CA has put on EB, so if none of suggestions are plausible than the EB team has done the best they can and I approve.
Suggestion #1: Xanthippus starts on a ship with some greek mercenaries (as it was said that he came over with Greek mercenaries hired by Carthage) on his way to North Africa. This one is probably not possible but if it is then it is a good option.
Suggestion #2: Xanthippus starts as a Carthaginian general in Greece with a transport awaiting him.
Suggestion #3: The most historically accurate, though not neccesarily possible. Xanthippus starts as an eleutheroi general in Greece with traits that make him easy to bribe and a Carthaginian diplomat right nearby.

Slightly off topic, Xanthippus turned up in Age of Empires (the first one) if you could find him in the First Punic War, the battle of Tunis (I don't know if that battle really happened as I have never heard of it). He had a reasonably Greek army with lots of Phalaxes, two Catapults and a couple of Cataphracts. Now I know who he really was. Yes!

Anyway back on topic he could turn up like this:
The Script at the games start causes a eleutheroi general and a large army of Greek mercenaries turn up near Karthage between 10 - 18 years after a major war has begun and major defeats and victories have started showing up. Then when he appears the scripts causes a box/advisor to pop up telling you "A General can be Hired". This box will tell you that a General named Xanthippus is willing to be hired by you for lets say 30,000. It could give historical infomation about him his armies and what Carthage used him for. Then it could give two options Yes hire him, No don't hire him. If you don't hire him he goes of the be hired by somebody else on a rebel navy. If you say yes his army joins you. Brilliant solution!

Phoenician colonies. It was mentioned on another thread that it should be possible for Carthaginians to recruit at least their militia citizen phalanx from any city with a Phoenician colony. After some research I discovered that this was, pretty much, true. The Phoenicians would colonize places and then the colonists, still being Carthaginian citizens, would, in times of need, form citizen armies much like those that fought invaders in North africa. Of course there was supposedly a difference between colonial citizens and homeland citizens though I couldn't find anywhere that said what the difference was. I suspect this difference would have had something to do with local influence. The ability to recruit these citizens after building a colony would help in areas where Carthage can't build any troops, like in Latium for example. It's really annoying in the campaign to capture Rome and then be unable to recruit a garrison.

Carthaginian naval reforms: The Carthaginians, at the outset of the Punic war had a large number of ships partially beause they contained very small complements of armed men(marines). Partway through the Punic war the Carthaginians began outfitting their fleet with more marines and more specifically the best pick of their most skilled mercenaries. In game this would be a normal reform with the Punic fleets starting out with fewer men than they have now and then after the reform their ship complement is brought up to what it is now.

I agree with all of the above, but I wish to suggest that the Romans have naval reforms too. The Romans, had almost no sea power at the games start and had no very good idea how to build ships. A reform should occur after Rome has started a war with a naval faction. Also I think ships sinking by storm should occur much more often. During the Punic Wars Rome lost most of it's fleet to a terrable storm and there were several more historical reports of bad weather on the seas. I also think that if you go out onto the West Coast of Iberia or Gaul you should sink, almost guarenteed.

[khelvan]

so, just who is the world's foremost pre-Roman Punic historian?

Dr. Charles Krahmalkov.

[Tellos Athenaios]

Probably suggested before, but, could you enable multiple temples of various gods in a settlement, like RTR does? The bonuses each temple gives probably should be altered in order not to make the overall result overpowering, but still it seems not logical that a power would build only one temple type per settlement.

[Aristophanes]

A lot of people have mentioned the unbalancing effect of massed elite units, particularly those produced by the AI. I was wondering whether the most useful way to limit production of these units, unbalanced when in large quantities, might just be to increase the training time substantially. After all, one would expect elite units to be much better trained, and accumulate training, equipping and rearing time ought to be factored into production time. 3-4 turns for lower order uniques, 4-6 for higher order. After all, it's not like the king's elite guard can be replaced every year in seven different cities all at once. This might also help balance out roman armies: 1 year for hastati, 2 years for principes, 3-5 years for triarii.

[MSB]

A small suggestion for a Roman Trait for spies that spend a turn in Britain or who are trained in Britain or who are hired (if possible) as spy mercenaries in Britain (if controlled by Rome) after the Imperial Reforms:

Areani:
This spy is a member of the secret Roman Imperial British spy network. The Areani were agents in the Roman Imperial army stationed in Britain. They served as both scouts for the legions and as undercover agents spying on the enemies of Rome. Many of them were mercenaries. They were eventually disbanded after they joined the rebels in "The Great Conspiracy" of 367AD.

Game Effects: As this man is with other spies in a unit he learns many new things from them. This increases this spy's chances of getting traits that increase his subterferge and/or line of sight.

[Tanit]

Slightly off topic, Xanthippus turned up in Age of Empires (the first one) if you could find him in the First Punic War, the battle of Tunis (I don't know if that battle really happened as I have never heard of it). He had a reasonably Greek army with lots of Phalaxes, two Catapults and a couple of Cataphracts. Now I know who he really was. Yes!

That's Great!!!! Let's hear it for great old school games!!!

Anyway back on topic he could turn up like this:
The Script at the games start causes a eleutheroi general and a large army of Greek mercenaries turn up near Karthage between 10 - 18 years after a major war has begun and major defeats and victories have started showing up. Then when he appears the scripts causes a box/advisor to pop up telling you "A General can be Hired". This box will tell you that a General named Xanthippus is willing to be hired by you for lets say 30,000. It could give historical infomation about him his armies and what Carthage used him for. Then it could give two options Yes hire him, No don't hire him. If you don't hire him he goes of the be hired by somebody else on a rebel navy. If you say yes his army joins you. Brilliant solution!

Is that possible? If so it would be awesome.

I agree with all of the above, but I wish to suggest that the Romans have naval reforms too. The Romans, had almost no sea power at the games start and had no very good idea how to build ships. A reform should occur after Rome has started a war with a naval faction. Also I think ships sinking by storm should occur much more often. During the Punic Wars Rome lost most of it's fleet to a terrable storm and there were several more historical reports of bad weather on the seas. I also think that if you go out onto the West Coast of Iberia or Gaul you should sink, almost guarenteed.

I agree, but I think that the EB team once said that storms and their effects couldn't really be modded. I could be mistaken here.