Carthage overpowered?

**abou** · 03-21-2006, 06:30

Right now in the game I just started, which is also my first in EB, Carthage is most certainly a powerhouse; one that I do not know how to defeat. As the Romani, I am having a very hard time building the powerhouse economy other players have talked about and the need to rotate troops for retraining is hurting me. I just managed to defeat a very large Carthaginian force at Syracuse and Messana, but I cannot afford to expand to the north past Segesta or into Lilibeo.

Despite all of this, Carthage has expaned all the way south into the Sahara and a little into the independent pronvinces of Egypt. Furthermore, I am the only faction they are at war with in contradiction to what I thought would be an expansionist Ptolomaioi (somehow with the Seleukids as a protectorate).

PS - Oh yeah, first post. The mod is really cool by the way.

**john289** · 03-21-2006, 09:22

I beat Carthage pretty easily just by doing some quick raids against them. Since nearly all of their important settlements are coastal, I just took an undefended settlement, exterminated it down to 400, destroyed all the buildings, and gave it to pontos or some other insignificant Eastern nation, they would hold onto it long enough so that when i actually WANTED to take it, i would stroll in with the city undefended and set up shop.

**Urnamma** · 03-22-2006, 21:40

Originally Posted by john289

I beat Carthage pretty easily just by doing some quick raids against them. Since nearly all of their important settlements are coastal, I just took an undefended settlement, exterminated it down to 400, destroyed all the buildings, and gave it to pontos or some other insignificant Eastern nation, they would hold onto it long enough so that when i actually WANTED to take it, i would stroll in with the city undefended and set up shop.

This is, I think, a rather silly way to play. Try roleplaying a little bit, and try to make the game behave like real civilizations. Nobdody takes something over and then says 'well, you guys, from 2,000 miles away, you take it for a bit'.

**GodEmperorLeto** · 03-23-2006, 04:29

Originally Posted by Urnamma

This is, I think, a rather silly way to play. Try roleplaying a little bit, and try to make the game behave like real civilizations. Nobdody takes something over and then says 'well, you guys, from 2,000 miles away, you take it for a bit'.

Actually, I was honestly thinking of doing that with Syracuse. I've been considering giving it to the allied Greeks as an alliance bargaining chip or something, then grabbing it back when I decide the time is right to whomp them. But that's not quite the same as giving it to the landlocked Yuezhi or the Britons. The Greeks were navally capable, and since Athens made a try for Syracuse, it's not unbelievable.

It's all about plans within plans, as Piter deVries might have said.

**BigTex** · 03-23-2006, 08:38

Well crap, I just won a major heroic victory in Siciliy, which left Lilbeo almost undefended, and once I return to the campaign map it crashed... twice - so two heroic victories in a row wasted. I also managed to kill two Carthaginian family members.

This is what has happened to me in any battle like that. Whenever I win a battle near a city, one that would normally leave the city undefended and allow you to just stroll in. I crash, but only when its against a faction and not eluthorio. Its never failed to crash for me. Its caused some real problems, many wasted heroic victorys on VH to that bug. Its one of those grit your teath and play some America's Army bugs.

Carthage isnt overpowered, the places were you can recruit our solid troops are small. Africans in africa, iberian in spain, it poses huge logistical problems. Makes for an interesting game as them. When playing as them their quick powerful armies pose interesting situations.

**john289** · 03-23-2006, 09:02

Originally Posted by Urnamma

This is, I think, a rather silly way to play. Try roleplaying a little bit, and try to make the game behave like real civilizations. Nobdody takes something over and then says 'well, you guys, from 2,000 miles away, you take it for a bit'.

I don't think so. I roleplayed it just fine, my general raided in coordination with orders from his father, the Verrix who set us up for victory through diplomatic intrigue

Really I didn't think that taking Spain/Sicily/Corsica and Sardinia from Carthage and giving the city itself to the Ptolemies(who also happened to be at war with Carthage) to be that unrealistic, when the Allies conquered Germany they did divide it up into four zones

**stufer** · 03-23-2006, 10:55

Its really nice to see that most people are finding them to be a challenge to fight. I was thinking that maybe my generalship was not as good as I had thought.

Someone mentioned the troubles they have had fighting them in Iberia and I have to concur with that. Big armies full of elite troops and some really well defended strong-holds. Seriously, they have all of their Iberian cities with stone walls and at least 1000 defenders. Absolutely no way am I going to assault these places. Mainly because I'm role-playing my general down there and after his last epic battle he's become a recluse. I like to think of him as having seen too much horror and now he can't bare to waste his troops on pointless attacks.
I was trying to get a triumph for this guy but now I think he may not have enough Influence (recluse gives a minus 3 influence hit i think). But that's cool because I can't see him wanting to be paraded around Rome now. I think when the war ends I'll have him become the Governor of Iberia and end his days there. I was really impressed about the Recluse thing kicking in directly after the most decisive and bloody battle of the war (I beleive thanks should go to Malrubius for the amazing traits - Cheers mate).

Anyway I digress. Like someone above me pointed out, I couldn't have been successful without the help from my Iberian allies.

Without a doubt this is the best campaign I have played.

**pezhetairoi** · 03-26-2006, 07:20

Qarthadast has not come close to being a challenge yet to me, because while tactically and qualitatively their units are awesome to face, strategically on M/M they are babies. The only army that stood a chance of actually annihilating me, a fullstack of iberian assault, general's cav, curisii, elite africans pikes and leebifeenikim, split itself up three ways to defend Baikor, Sucummurgi and Gader after my very vengeful Roman fullstack threatened all three simultaneously during my Second Punic War, and so they got thrashed in three piecemeal battles. I haven't touched Africa yet, but I foresee some challenges.

**GodEmperorLeto** · 03-26-2006, 14:22

Making peace with Carthage was a horror. After I grabbed Sicily, Sardinia, and Corsica from them, they decided to starve me out of Italy by blockading all of my ports. Considering my fleet was really small, it was annihilated quickly. I had to sit and watch my treasury melt away and my cities riot for two full years before they would finally accept the loss of the three islands and accept my terms (which had been whittled down to simply "Ceasefire").