U.S. Marines accused of massacre in Iraq

[Kagemusha]

This is a clear case of War crime.Im glad these men are now put in a military court to judge and sentence them.This kind of news make me sick,but war is sick business and there are always people that will commit war crimes.My condolences to the relatives of those killed families.

[BigTex]

This is a clear case of War crime.Im glad these men are now put in a military court to judge and sentence them.This kind of news make me sick,but war is sick business and there are always people that will commit war crimes.My condolences to the relatives of those killed families.

There's too many holes in the story to fit together that the marines killed the civillians in cold blood. My bets are there was a fire fight and the houses were between the two, or the insurrgents used the houses and the people as shields. They even said both houses were filled with bullet holes, in the roofs, in the walls, that just doesnt fit together as the marines executing them. I'm not going to blame any of those marines till there's some more evidence, not just a video of dead bodies. It was a bad area to engage an enemy, but they didnt get a choice, they were engaged. Blame should be applied to the criminals who set the bomb up not with the marines. Granted their a little bit more elusive, but blaming the easy target isnt right either.

[Kagemusha]

I hope so.But il guess the Military court will decide that. The main issue is that it will be investigated what killed those people. And why they died.I can understand that the fighting in urban enviroment can be very frustrating but killing innocent children is unacceptable.
I would also like to hear about the Fallujah incident when Civilians were turned back to combat zone by US military personel.Its been a quite a while now and there hasnt been anything new about it in the media.
Im glad that the current affair has come out and is investigated by the US military.But if people commit warcrimes,their training is no excuse.A war crime is war crime. But ofcourse now these men are only suspected of it.They are innocent untill proven guilty.

[Tribesman]

Oh dear , it never rains but it pours .
Just as this story resurfaces after a 3 month absence another appears , this time it is the Iraqi police saying US forces "executed" 11 civilians last week in Balad .

edit to add ..... Just noticed this in the initial post ....I will hold fire until more facts emerge
Now that is funny .

[Goofball]

There's too many holes in the story to fit together that the marines killed the civillians in cold blood. My bets are there was a fire fight and the houses were between the two, or the insurrgents used the houses and the people as shields. They even said both houses were filled with bullet holes, in the roofs, in the walls, that just doesnt fit together as the marines executing them.

Bold added by me, to note a very important distinction, see below:

Time said the available evidence did not prove the marines deliberately killed civilians. The magazine, however, said its investigation showed that walls and ceilings in both houses were pockmarked with shrapnel and bullet holes as well as sprays of blood. The video did not show any bullet holes on the outside of the houses — holes that might support the military report of a gunbattle.

The bullet holes were not on the "roofs." This would imply marines were outside shooting in at targets they couldn't see. The bullet holes were in the "ceilings," which implies that the marines were inside shooting at targets that they could see.

The initial evidence as reported in the article sadly points to the marines having gone from room to room executing everybody they came across.

[BigTex]

Originally Posted by The Article
Time said the available evidence did not prove the marines deliberately killed civilians. The magazine, however, said its investigation showed that walls and ceilings in both houses were pockmarked with shrapnel and bullet holes as well as sprays of blood. The video did not show any bullet holes on the outside of the houses — holes that might support the military report of a gunbattle.

Bold and Comic Sans MS added by me. There's shrapnel from the bomb inside the building, obviously then there are not just marks on the ceiling but holes in the roof. It's more then likely the reporter would assume you would know that there would be holes in the roof not just in the ceiling. Or the reporters definition of ceiling is different then yours. A 5.56mm round isnt suddenly going to stop at the ceiling of a house anyways, obviously there's going to be holes in it. The article also doesn't mention any otopsy findings, either they conflict with his story, he doesnt have them, or they werent done. Personally I would assume that if shrapnel from the bomb got in the houses that some of the civillian deaths were from the bomb and not from the insuing fire fight.

[Tribesman]

The article also doesn't mention any otopsy findings, either they conflict with his story, he doesnt have them, or they werent done. Personally I would assume that if shrapnel from the bomb got in the houses that some of the civillian deaths were from the bomb and not from the insuing fire fight.
None so blind eh ?????
The conflicting story is that the military initially claimed these people were killed in the bombing , then two months later they said they were not killed in the bombing they were killed in a firefight with insurgents , now three months after that they are saying ummmmm...firefight ...well maybe not??????
So who has the conflicting story Tex , the journalists who are reporting what
the military say , or the military themselves ?

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

I'm not sure that Marines are the hair-trigger Rambos that some make them out to be. They ARE trained to follow orders, too.

I also read a book by some journalist sometime between the Gulf War and 9-11 about the Marines. In it, the author noted that the Marines were proud of (successful) peace keeping operations in Africa, including Somalia. They cited their success to their well-armed and dangerous appearence and manner, saying that the natives were too scared to cause trouble!

[KrooK]

Of course it was war crime.
Notice that into article they wrote that some persons has been shot into head and stomach. But they forgot to wrote into which side of head - im sure into back side. Furthemore most murdered persons has been shot twice - into stomach and head. I think they threw grenades, entered house and then noticed that some pps died, but most alive. So they showed them who rules - first shot into stomachs (cause it pains), waited some minutes spectating and then finished job.

[Divinus Arma]

I'm happy to see so many here are not jumping to rash judgment.

I will wait for more information.


We Marines are not rabid dogs waiting to be unleashed, but human beings who have been given protocol and the discipline to follow that protocol.

The Marine Corps has recently begun embracing the concept of "distributed operations". It requires Marines under the leadership of NCOs to take on greater responsibility in small unit capabilities. This operation would be an example of that concept in action, but at a very rudimentary level.

The Marine Corps is perfectly capable of engaging in peace keeping duties and police work, so long as the unit-level training is sufficient to support these operations. These Marines may have been ordered to act outside of their capacity, but that does not alleviate them from personal responsibility.


My Marine Corps requires the strictest adherance to ethical conduct in warfare. The hallmark of the United States Marine Corps is its reputation for character in the ranks. Should my Marines be found guilty, they should each be executed.

[Goofball]

Time said the available evidence did not prove the marines deliberately killed civilians. The magazine, however, said its investigation showed that walls and ceilings in both houses were pockmarked with shrapnel and bullet holes as well as sprays of blood. The video did not show any bullet holes on the outside of the houses — holes that might support the military report of a gunbattle.

Bold and Comic Sans MS added by me. There's shrapnel from the bomb inside the building, obviously then there are not just marks on the ceiling but holes in the roof. Or the reporters definition of ceiling is different then yours.

Do you really think so, Sherlock? Because if it is so "obvious" that there would be holes in the roof, why does the article specifically say "the video did not show any bullet holes on the outside of the houses?"

Are they the magical kind of holes that you can only see from one side, much like the entrance to Platform 9 3/4?

A 5.56mm round isnt suddenly going to stop at the ceiling of a house anyways, obviously there's going to be holes in it.

Maybe not a north American ceiling that's made of drywall with a few interspaced studs, but how about an Iraqi ceiling made of brick? And what about the possibility that the firing was taking place on the ground floor of a two story home, so the rounds only penetrated one floor, but didn't make it out of the next one?

At any rate, you might be surprised what would stop a 5.56 round.

The article also doesn't mention any otopsy findings, either they conflict with his story, he doesnt have them, or they werent done. Personally I would assume that if shrapnel from the bomb got in the houses that some of the civillian deaths were from the bomb and not from the insuing fire fight.

Even if that's the case, the article is pretty detailed in it's description of the bullet holes in the bodies, which sound like aimed, precise shots. So your assumption would only mean that some of the people may have already been dead, but the marines decided they had better put a round through their chests or heads to make certain that they were wasted. Which really is frowned upon when it comes to three year olds.

But you are right about one thing. I would like to see an autopsy report and some actual testimony transcripts to have something more to go on than a description of a video by a news media source.

[Papewaio]

Damn Goofball beat me to it... no sharpnel damage to the outside... so unless all the sharpnel quantum tunneled through the walls it would be a safe assumption that sharpnel damage inside was from explosives detonated inside the house.

[Major Robert Dump]

If we are talking about the same video I have seen on the net, this was an incident of people being killed inside the homes by other people with guns. Bombs dont magically pass walls and leave the entire building unscathed except for a few holes in sheetrock inside and a pile of dead bodies. It also wans't friedly fire from the outside going in, again, these were dead people in rooms with a few bullet holes in the wall here and there, a house of occupants killed by friendly fire would have to be saturated with holes unless the entire building was made of windows, which it wasn't

I'm making no judgement as to who did it, but the people inside on the video I saw were killed at close range with firearms. The video, however, is just that: groups of dead people inside an otherwise normal home with splatters of blood and bullet holes in the wall. Could have been killed under many different circumstances, bodies could have been moved, etc etc, so I'm making no judgement other than it WAS NOT a bomb and if the crime was committed at that location (ie, the bodies not moved there) then it was definitely either intentional or extreme recklessness.

[Tribesman]

Conflicting stories ......
In relation to last weeks incident in Balad .
An Iraqi brigadier general and a Lt-col . are saying that the people killed were handcuffed put in a room and then killed .
An American major says there is no evidence they were handcuffed .
Who are we to believe ?
I go with the Major ....it is highly unlikely that they had handcuffs to fit a 6 month old , 2 three year olds and 2 five year olds .
Oh well , lets see what the investigation turns up .