Reinforcement battles - to CTD or not to CTD

[Kull]

Still haven't had a reinforcement CTD, I'd like to help if I can though. Heres a picture of one about to heppen. I'm the Makedons, the AI is pontus, theres a pontic family member in the town, and one in the southernmost army, the middle army is led by a captain. I had 1 family member in my stack. I killed both family members, and chased most of the rest away, I didnt kill very many of their soldiers. I have the save if you want to check it out, I can use the UsendIt, what email should I send it to?

At this point we are only looking for save game files in which your army is led by a captain. Thanks for offering!

Is there any progress in hunting this bug down guys?

I´m currently stucked in my Seleukid camp. When the AI attacks, ctd. When I attack, ctd. Only way is to autocalc but I know I´ll loose big and I really don´t want to be set back at this stage in the campaign.

Have you tried the special traits file? Just load it for the turn of the battle, and then (assuming it worked), reload the old traits file and continue your game.

We are still working this bug hard, but it's proving exceptionally difficult to track down. We have some ideas for fixing it, but they involve a significant change to the EB traits system. The "solution" is very unappetizing, especially since there's a chance the whole problem will be solved by porting to 1.5. Anyway, that's where we are.

[PseRamesses]

Have you tried the special traits file? Just load it for the turn of the battle, and then (assuming it worked), reload the old traits file and continue your game.

We are still working this bug hard, but it's proving exceptionally difficult to track down. We have some ideas for fixing it, but they involve a significant change to the EB traits system. The "solution" is very unappetizing, especially since there's a chance the whole problem will be solved by porting to 1.5. Anyway, that's where we are.

Just wanted to check if any new development has been made. Seems a bit painstaiking to save, exit, activate fix, start, play, save, exit, activate original and finally get back in the game just to do it all over again in the next siege battle.
I´ve come up with another solution, playwise, to this problem that solves my problem. For every campaign I bring two stacks, one elite led by my general, and one "baggage-stack" mostly containing pantodopai. My general does all the battles but my 2nd stack starts the siege and my general is moved into the stack for the assault which I autocalc if reinforcements are standing on the siegeworks. Expensive, yes. Realistic, hmmm - pretty much since it slovs me down and all campaigns are more planned. In reality no army has ever launched any sucessfull campaign without auxiliaries, baggage and good logistics.
If the porting to 1.5 is more than a month away you might consider solving this issue anyway. Think of the hundreds of hours you´ll be saving, all the relief from frustration from your players and the fact that I do think you guys obtains HC knowledge that might prove usefull in the future.
Anyway I must say, and I do speak for a lot of us, that we´re grateful for your work and for revitalizing a pretty boring game into something that it should have been from the start.

[Dayve]

Or to make things easier you could just withdraw whenever they attack you with reinforcements... The reinforcements will probably follow you and attack you alone, so fight those, then move forward again to attack the city... If they bring more reinforcements, do it all again... Obviously this isn't realistic because in reality sieges could last years... With this tactic you will have to assault the turn after you lay siege, otherwise you risk getting attacked with reinforcements and having to retreat and do it all again, but it has to be done...

Failing that, you'll just have to save and reload so that the script is de-activated, fight the battle and then activate the script again.

[soibean]

Ive had repeated CTD under this circumstance
Im Macedon, its still the first year and Im besieging thermon
the wandering AI army attacks my own, I slaughter the first one but the reinforcements from the town wander around in the back of the map until Im forced to attack them. Even then they only attack alone or in pairs.
after I win the battle, game CTD
Its done this twice, but when I autobattle it, I lose... obviously it was a heroic victory, but no CTD

sorry about the wrong thread
I was on my way out after the game crashed and only quickly glanced at the page, I got the 7.2 bug list mixed up with this one, I apologize

[Yun Dog]

Ok Ive got one

Ill attempt to document it as best I can

Playing as Baktria,

fighting the barbarians to the east nearest the eastern edge of the map - northern india

I had withdrawn from fighting the initial attack and a small army and their main force of 1000 had sallied forth and attacked me

always CTD when I win the battle and go from battle to strat map screen

this has happened in a few other battles as well

whats worse luck is its always the battles I really need to win or a loss will be a large setback - but unless I win via auto resolve then the battle CTDs every time after my victory

when playing Romani v7.2 I didnt experience anywhere near this frequencey of CTDs

now playing as Baktria - 7.4 I get them commonly and always when reloading the strat screen after winning a battle so far only against the barbarians (as they are all Ive fought)

I must really love this mod to put up with v1.2 RTW - cause I hate v1.2 its so crap

[Avicenna]

1) Factions - (Yours/Theirs)
I am KH, enemy are Makedon
2) Circumstances - Siege battle? Rally? Open field? Bridge? Fort? Where and when (winter?) did it happen?
Open field
3) Leaders - Were they captains, generals, or family members?
Captains for them
4) Outcome - Level of victory/defeat, did any defeated stacks survive? How many units remained?
One of their units remained from the reinforcement stack, other stack annihilated. Heroic Victory
5) Positioning - Were any of the stacks standing on siege graphics? On a land bridge? On a river crossing?
Negative
6) Version - EB Version (v.72, v.73a, v.74)
not sure.. the one before 0.8

[Rodion Romanovich]

1) Factions - (Yours/Theirs)
Macedon (me) vs 3 stacks of Getai
2) Circumstances - Siege battle? Rally? Open field? Bridge? Fort? Where and when (winter?) did it happen?
Siege, spring, small enemy stack attacks, one medium and one big stack of enemies join as reinforcements.
3) Leaders - Were they captains, generals, or family members?
I had 1 general, they had 2 generals in the big reinforcement force (which begun in the besieged city) and 1 general in the medium force, only a captain led the small Getai force that did the actual attack.
4) Outcome - Level of victory/defeat, did any defeated stacks survive? How many units remained?
I won, it was 1500-40 in kill-loss ratio, there were enemy survivors in all stacks, but two of them had so few I guess they'd get "army routs" status on campaign map.
5) Positioning - Were any of the stacks standing on siege graphics? On a land bridge? On a river crossing?
Don't think any was standing on siege graphics (don't understand what it means to stand on siege graphics). None was standing on land bridge or river crossing.
6) Version - EB Version (v.72, v.73a, v.74)
0.74

I don't think I've had a single siege battle with enemy reinforcements that hasn't crashed... In one battle I solved the problem by hiring a mercenary and putting him as a single-unit stack between my siege army and the enemy, so the enemy couldn't attack me, but that isn't always possible...

[GiantMonkeyMan]

had my first ever CTD with EB so far i've been impressed with the stability (even in the first version)...

1) Macedon (me) vs 2 epirote armies
2) siege battle
3) 1 general and one captain (the reinforcements)
4) heroic victory... i think i had about 500 kills and them about 100? i completely wiped out the reinforcements and the other army only had about 80 left
5) two armies were on the siege graphics
6) 0.74

hope this can help

[Rodion Romanovich]

Actually since I wrote the post above not a single reinforcement battle in 0.74 has crashed for me... But I've avoided battles with odds equal to or worse than 5:3 to the enemy. All other factors have varied in different combinations.

[llib]

A.
1) Factions - (Koinon Hellenikon/Epirus)
2) Circumstances - Open Field, not sure about season. I was defending, one phalanx unit was as primary attacking squad, big stack was as reinforcements.
3) Leaders - I had two, not sure as about enemy
4) Outcome - Heroic Victory, first stack of enemy was attacking alone, while the rest of enemy get stucked in the entrance area, some units on the field, others just partly or out of map completely. First stack(one phalanx) was eliminated completely(as I was chasing them, I found out that many of them were far away from the rest of unit - about one quarter of the map distance). Some of reinforcements made it out (I ended battle a while after they were routed).
5) Positioning - field.
6) Version - EB Version v.74
7) Traits - Didn't tried yet
8) Screen shots - NA
9) Save game - Planning to send it when I'll get home.
---
10) Bit of comment - I have fought the same battle after starting the game again, the result was victory again, but this time I let few men from 1st stack phalanx survive. CTD did not reappeared. Other than that, reinforcements stack was still just standin near the borders as the first time, they moved only after I have advanced forward to them and made very uncoordinated attack - attacking in single units. I'm wondering whether there isn't some issue with formations.

B.
1) Factions - (Koinon Hellenikon/Macedonia)
2) Circumstances - Enemy fort. My full stack of attackers, they had few defenders, plus two reinforcements stacks.
3) Leaders - I had two, enemy had just one - general alone was one of two reinforcement stacks, the other was bigger.
4) Outcome - Heroic Victory, they were all evaporated to the last man.
5) Positioning - Winter, fort in the open.
6) Version - EB Version v.74
7) Traits - Didn't tried yet
8) Screen shots - NA
9) Save game - Planning to send it when I'll get home.
---
10) Bit of comment - I have replayed again after starting the game again. This time only fortification stack was evaporated, other two survived (just general lost few Hetairoi's). The CTD did not reoccur.

------
As I wrote, I'll try to post savegames when I'll get back home.
BTW, is it supposed that AI doesn't have siege equipment on map when you try to breakout? Not sure if it is the same with player as besieger.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Thanks llib. I'd say you probably needn't worry about posting a save game now. The build has now been moved over to 1.5 and we will just have to get it to a point where we can start testing it to find if this problem still works. We appreciated you posting the details here, and there's been no real statement that we don't need more data on the Reinforcement battle CTD's, but I just haven't seen anything on the internal boards that would indicate to me that posting more savegames and information on this problem in 1.2 would help us solve it in 1.5.

Thanks for trying to help everyone!

[Tellos Athenaios]

Haven't yet encountered a CTD with this so far but reading all the info given and espescially the fact that a lot of the CTD's happen after a Heroic Victory with a general, I started wondering if it would be due to a trait issuing problem. I mean after Heroic Victories the game is most likely to issue a general a trait to improve his command ablebilities, and it's precisely at the moment the game should do this (immediately after/ during the campaign reloading process) the CTD's seem to happen.

[greyalexis]

sieges in anquity are always hard to judge. did they happen yes. but many areas were not as fortified or as built up as latter ancient cities were.

[Titus Andronicus]

I think the map is the reason. I don't have EB installed, but I play on the Mundus Magnus v 1.0 map which as far as I remember has the same layout as the EB map. Crashes always happen when my besieging army is attacked. I had been playing on the Mundus Magnus v1.2 on patch 1.2 for quite a long time before I switched to RTW v1.5 and never experienced a CTD. That version is slightly different than the 1.0. Hope this helped just a little.

[Avicenna]

1) Factions - (Yours/Theirs) I am KH in all battles. The other side is one time both Makedon, other time both Ptolemaics. One time is both rebels.
2) Circumstances - AI army attacks mine, which is besieging an AI city. All three times.
3) Leaders - In the Makedonian time, the attacking army was led by a captain, and the reinforcements by the Makedonian faction leader. In the Ptolemaic battle, both captain. Eleutheroi attackers were led by a captain, reinforcements by family member.
4) Outcome - Makedonians had 2 tiny units remaining. Ptolemaics utterly crushed. Eleutheroi destroyed as well.
5) Positioning - Makedonian battle was at the edge of the Mytilene island, but no port or buildings. Ptolemaic was inland with nothing but woods. Eleutheroi was similarly nothing, but I could see Kydonia from the battlefield.
6) Version - EB Version (v.72, v.73a, v.74) .74
7) Screen shots - sorry
8) Save game - sorry

NOTES: all three were victories in case you missed it.

Makedonian, even though it was most recent, I can't remember. I'm pretty sure it was clear.
Ptolemaic was heroic.
Eleutheroi was clear.

EDIT: almost forgot. No CTD on all three occasions.

[pezhetairoi]

I'm Romani, playing against Makedon, assaulting Demetrias with a relief force just outside the city.

Leaders: My army has two family members (and 3 triarii, 3 hastati, 3 principes, 4 equites, 2 akontistai, 3 toxotai), the Mak relief force is captain-led (1 taxeis hoplitai, 1 peltastai, 1 thureophoroi) and the garrison of Demetrias is led by a family member (one hetairoi bodyguard, one thureophoroi)

Outcome: No Makedon survivors. I intercepted the relief force outside (i was attacking from the west, but shifted all operations to the north during deployment, placing my army between the relief and the city) and crushed it. Then I stormed the city, killed the family member who contested the breach, and annihilated the thureophoroi by luring them out of the square and charging them in rear with my equites.

EB version: 0.74

Screenshots: none, sorry

Savegame: message me or email me and I'll send it over!

[Harniac]

I had a CTD recently. Here are the details:

1) Factions - (Yours/Theirs)
Me - epirotes. AI - macedonians.

2) Circumstances - Siege battle? Rally? Open field? Bridge? Fort? Where and when (winter?) did it happen?
Siege battle. Me attacking with elephants, so no siege weaponry. No rallies during battle.

3) Leaders - Were they captains, generals, or family members?
I had Pyrrhos and one of his sons. Defending is the macedonian king, and the reinforcing enemy stack consists of a single general or family member.

4) Outcome - Level of victory/defeat, did any defeated stacks survive? How many units remained?
I won, but I didn't really note the level of victory or survivors, sorry. But I did run the battle twice, and both were CTD:s. I also tried autoresolve and had no CTD, but that's probably in order I guess.

5) Positioning - Were any of the stacks standing on siege graphics? On a land bridge? On a river crossing?
Two stacks are on siege graphics, my attacking stack and the reinforcing stack.

6) Version - EB Version (v.72, v.73a, v.74)
.74

7) Traits - Does the traits file found right here affect the CTD?
Haven't tried this.

8) Screen shots - If possible, please provide screen shots so we can see things like the units in each army, what year it was, whether there was a general, etc.
You get a save game instead (below).

9) Save game - If possible, please use a free file hosting service, such as Yousendit, to give us the opportunity to test it.
The save game, prior to the siege/battle (witch takes place in the same round due to the elephants) can be found here: http://www.totalwar.org/Downloads/Rt...arniac_ctd.zip

Feels good to contribute a little bit to this great mod!

[Avicenna]

1) Factions - (Yours/Theirs) I am KH, the enemy are Eleutheroi.
2) Circumstances - AI army attacks mine, which is besieging an AI city, and I have reinforcements.
3) Leaders - I can't remember, but the AI attackers were definitely captain led. The AI reinforcements might have been, I forgot. My attacked army was led by a family member, and my reinforcements were led by a captain.
4) Outcome - Clear victory, with the attacking AI army almost completely destroyed. The reinforcing AI army was not touched on the battlefield, but would have disappeared after the battle. My reinforcements never entered the battlefield.
5) Positioning - My attacked army was besieging. My reinforcement army was hiding in the woods, one tile to my Northwest. The AI attacking army was one tile to my East. The Reinforcements for the AI were one tile to my southeast, in Pergamon.
6) Version - EB Version (v.72, v.73a, v.74) .74