Gnish! Gnash! Gni!

[Shaka_Khan]

Can you play today?

[Boromir Of Gondor]

Hi Krast,

I would consider myself from 'the old days'.

I can certainly remember the Krast in the foyer amongst the 90-100 others at the time.

I pop into the foyer again from time to time (not tonight though). Yet to raise a sword in anger though. Only Daveo was there yesterday but seemed to be AFK all the time

I got all excited about my first game for 3 years but no luck.

Anyway if you see 1Dread1 Boromir in the foyer then give me shout and I'll sherpen my sword!

Boro...

[Trajanus]

'Old Days' means the vintage shoggy days when there was no MTW or RTW.

We managed 100 people in the server almost continuously. I remember Krast and Boro (among countless other famous and honourable taishos)

[Boromir Of Gondor]

'Old Days' means the vintage shoggy days when there was no MTW or RTW.

We managed 100 people in the server almost continuously. I remember Krast and Boro (among countless other famous and honourable taishos)

Who were you again Trajanus?



I can't place you.


Boro...

[Trajanus]

Toda Nebuchadnezzar. NoFear Nebu

[Puzz3D]

'Old Days' means the vintage shoggy days when there was no MTW or RTW.

We managed 100 people in the server almost continuously. I remember Krast and Boro (among countless other famous and honourable taishos)

That was STW v1.12. It was before Mongol Invasion/Warlord Edition was released in May 2001 IIRC. After MI/WE, the numbers online average more like 45. You can still play STW v1.12 on Shambles server, but no one does. Running STW v1.12 under WinXP can be problematic.

To address that, Krypta, Mitch, CBR and I patterned STWmod for MTW/VI v2.01 after original STW v1.12. It's uses a graphic conversion for the units made by barocca. We started with the STW v1.12 stat, and made adjustments so that the units fight for about the same length of time as they did in STW. The movement speeds of the units are as they were in STW. We had this tested online by players like Amp, Magyar and Swoosh and about 10 other vets, and made adjustments to eliminate exploits or problems that they uncovered.

STWmod is played without unit limit rules and without upgrades. However, MTW/VI has a 20% tax on more than 4 of any one unit type. All unit types are useful. The guns are Portuguese teppo (muskets) and Japanese teppo (muskets 1.5x stonger). Neither gun fires in rain just as it was in STW v1.12, and there is periodic rain in most battles that stops the guns from shooting for a short time. The mod does keep the Naginata cav, battlefield ninja and kensai of MI, and there is a new 11 man hatamoto unit that can be used for the general.

[Krasturak]

Gah! Yuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu...

*goes to work*

*comes home*

...uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuki! Gah!

[Puzz3D]

Well Krast, since you like to use guns you probably want to play STW/MI v1.02. Rules commonly use now only let you take 4 of any one unit type, but 4 muskets is plenty to devastate your opponent. Four 60 man muskets units firing unopposed in 3 ranks will take down at least 80 men in 60 seconds. They have enough ammo to volley 60 times. At 8 volleys a minute, you can shoot for about 8 minutes which will wipe out at least 66% of the enemy army. You'll have 75% of your army left not counting the spent guns, and your melee units will be stronger than the enemy melee units because guns are the cheapest units. Frontal charge into your 4 muskets is suicide, so the enemy must either withdraw out of range or make a fast flanking move with most of his units. Of course, the good old 2 on 1 can beat you if your ally doesn't help you.

The consequence of all this is that everyone takes 4 muskets. If you are good and hunt for the edge of the firing distance, you can get the jump in the shooting. A 30 second jump will allow you to come out of the shootout with about 120 gunners left. If we estimate your remaining ammo at 50% and nominal fatigue, you'll have 4 minutes of shooting with about 40 kills per minute. That will give you about 160 kills if the enemy doesn't charge which will be almost a 3 unit advantage in the otherwise equal unit strength melee. If the enemy charges immediately upon loosing the shootout, you'll still take down a fair number of enemies since kills are higher at shorter ranges, and more importantly you'll impose a -6 moral penalty on the targeted units which are also incuring fatigue as they charge.

If you are the defender on a hilly map, the attacker can just forget about winning if the players are otherwise evenly matched. The attacker will loose the shootout badly, and, if he takes all melee units, they won't compensate for 4 cheap muskets. The most he can get is one good melee unit for the cost of 4 muskets, and at least 60 men will be lost in the uphill charge effectively removing his melee advantage. He still has to fight uphill against units that get a combat advantage and morale boost from being on higher ground, and the muskets will still be shooting his units imposing the -6 morale on them.

STW/MI v1.02 is played at 10K so that the average morale is higher due to upgrades and the guns don't rout units as easily. However, since the melee morale penalties are of fixed magnitude, playing at 10k reduces the effectiveness of flanking which means taking hills is more difficult since outmaneuvering the defender with a single unit isn't as effective in routing the enemy army and that exposes the attacker's battleline to more volleys of fire from the guns. It's a moot point if the opponents are equal, but I think what it means is in order to win the attacker has to be relatively better than the defender than he had to be in STW v1.12 on the same map.

[Just A Girl]

IIRC the origional shogun manual "i have it here somewhere"
Said Muskets DID fire in rain. but arq's did not.

I seem to remember wondering why the book was lying to me.

So IMHO the fact that the muskets faild to shoot in the origional was atributable to a programming error that needed to be fixed.

[Krasturak]

Well Krast, since you like to use guns ... blah blah ... If we estimate your remaining ammo at 50% ... etc ... etc ...

This sort of analysis is why Krast has *always* admired Yuuki.

Desipte all this, there were people who could beat Krast's ten- or twelve-gun armies.

Not many, though. Heh.

[Krasturak]

... Krypta, Mitch, CBR and I patterned STWmod for MTW/VI v2.01 after original STW v1.12. It's uses a graphic conversion for the units made by barocca. We started with the STW v1.12 stat, and made adjustments ...

I tried this mod a bit on SP and found it was fun.

Still, the units' behaviour was a little bit off from my expectations in the way they moved and fought, leaving me hungry for 'real' Shoggy.

Not to say you guys didn't do a great job -- you did.

I'd like to try that on MP mode one day, too.

[Shaka_Khan]

I'm here.