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    Default Re: Operation Barbarossa - What if

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatian
    It is not that simple. If britain/france were not involved in the war, the germans would still have to go through poland. Barbarossa came as a suprise because everybody believed that germany is going to attack england. With that out of the question, as it is in this "what if" scenario, russia would have been ready for war.
    I don't think it would have made much difference whether the SU was "prepared" for a German invasion or not. They simply did not have the doctrine, the organizaton or the training to withstand the Blitzkreig. A more "organized" defence might simply have put more Soviet units in the front line and thus subject to encirclement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatian
    Do not forget that SU had much more airplanes than germany (although not as advanced) and air superiority of the germans would be in question.
    Yes but most of them were obsolete biplanes which would have been no match for modern German monoplane fighters. Also their airfields and their equipment would probably have been overrun quickly by the advancing Wehrmacht in any case.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatian
    Also, german tanks (panzer IV) proved ineffective against t-34. "Panther" came later, after they realised panzer IV ineffectiveness in russian campaign. But t-34 was more than a match even for a panther, and not to mention it was 4 times cheaper. Next improvement, the tiger tank, was to bulky and slow to carry out the offensive.
    Therefore I think that the result of the campaogn would have been the same.
    Sorry, but this is not correct. Firstly the Panzer IV was not "ineffective" against the T-34, it was a good tank and performed effectively against the opposition right to the end of the war. However the T-34 was a better tank in some respects such as mobility. The German Panther tank was an attempt to copy some of the good design features of the T-34, such as the increased mobility and sloped armour.

    Secondly, the Tiger came before the Panther if I'm not mistaken. It was already in service in 1942, the Panther did not see action until Operation Citadel in July '43 and even then it turned out not to be ready.

    Thirdly, the Panther was a considerably superior tank to the T-34 in critical respects, even after the upgrading of the T-34 with the 85mm gun. The Panther's long barrelled 75mm gun had a considerably greater effective range and more penetration than either the Russian 75mm or 85mm gun. Also, German tank guns had superior sights which made their fire much more accurate. These were critical advantages for the Panther.

    In most other respects, the tanks were pretty much on a par, but of course the Panther also had crews with far superior training and communications which put them even further in front.
    Last edited by screwtype; 04-02-2006 at 05:42.

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