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  1. #1
    Dyslexic agnostic insomniac Senior Member Goofball's Avatar
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    Default U.S. Marines accused of massacre in Iraq

    The death toll includes a bunch of young children.

    I will hold fire until more facts emerge, but at this point it doesn't look too pretty for the Marines.

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...rnational/home

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    U.S. marines accused of massacre in Iraq


    BASSEM MROUE
    Associated Press
    Baghdad — After a roadside bomb killed a U.S. marine in western Iraq, American troops went into nearby houses and shot dead 15 members of two families, including a three-year-old-girl, residents told The Associated Press on Monday.
    The military says 12 marines are under investigation for possible war crimes by the Naval Criminal Investigative Service following the Nov. 19 attack in Haditha, 225 kilometres northwest of Baghdad.
    The allegations against the marines were first brought forward by Time magazine, which reported this week that it obtained a videotape two months ago taken by a Haditha journalism student that shows the dead still in their nightclothes.
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    The magazine report mirrored what was told independently to The AP by residents who described what happened as a massacre.
    A military spokeswoman said Monday the allegations were being taken "very seriously."
    Khaled Ahmed Rsayef, whose brother and six other relatives were killed, said the roadside bomb exploded at about 7:15 a.m. in the al-Subhani neighbourhood, heavily damaging a U.S. Humvee.
    A U.S. military statement in November described it as an ambush on a joint U.S.-Iraqi patrol that left 15 civilians, eight insurgents and a U.S. marine dead in the bombing and a subsequent firefight. The statement said the 15 civilians were killed by the blast, a claim residents denied.
    They said the only shooting done after the bombing was by U.S. forces.
    "American troops immediately cordoned off the area and raided two nearby houses, shooting at everyone inside," said Mr. Rsayef, who didn't witness the events but whose 15-year-old niece says she did. "It was a massacre in every sense of the word."
    Mr. Rsayef and another resident, former city councilman Imad Jawad Hamza, who spoke with hospital officials and residents, said the first house to be stormed was that of Abdul-Hamid Hassan Ali, which was near the scene of the bombing.
    Mr. Ali, 76, whose left leg was amputated years ago because of diabetes, died after being shot in the stomach and chest. His wife, Khamisa, 66, was shot in the back. Ali's son, Jahid, 43, was hit in the head and chest. Son Walid, 37, was burned to death after a grenade was thrown into his room, and a third son, 28-year-old Rashid, died after he was shot in the head and chest, Mr. Rsayef and Mr. Hamza said.
    Also among the dead were son Mr. Walid's wife, Asma, 32, who was shot in the head, and their son Abdullah, 4, who was shot in the chest, Mr. Rsayef and Mr. Hamza said.
    Mr. Walid's eight-year-old daughter, Iman, and his six-year-old son, Abdul-Rahman, were wounded and U.S. troops took them to Baghdad for treatment. The only person who escaped unharmed was Mr. Walid's five-month-old daughter, Asia. The three children now live with their maternal grandparents, Mr. Rsayef and Mr. Hamza said.
    Mr. Rsayef said those killed in the second house were his brother Younis, 43, who was shot in the stomach and chest, the brother's wife Aida, 40, who was shot in the neck and chest while still in bed where she was recuperating from bladder surgery. Their eight-year-old son Mohammed bled to death after being shot in the right arm, Mr. Rsayef said.
    Also killed were Mr. Younis's daughters, Nour, 14, who was shot in the head; Seba, 10, who was hit in the chest; Zeinab, 5, shot in the chest and stomach; and Aisha, 3, who was shot in the chest. Hoda Yassin, a visiting relative, was also killed, Mr. Rsayef and Mr. Hamza said.
    The only survivor from Mr. Younis's family was his 15-year-old daughter Safa, who pretended she was dead. She is living with her grandparents, Mr. Rsayef said.
    The troops then shot and killed four brothers who were walking in the street, Mr. Rsayef and Mr. Hamza said, identifying them as the sons of Ayed Ahmed — Marwan, Qahtan, Jamal and Chaseb.
    U.S. troops also shot dead five men who were in a car near the scene, Mr. Hamza and Mr. Rsayef said. They identified the five as Khaled Ayad al-Zawi and his brother Wajdi as well as Mohammed Battal Mahmoud, Akram Hamid Flayeh and Ahmad Fanni Mosleh.
    It was not clear if the nine men were involved in the attack as the military statement said.
    According to the U.S. Defence Department, the marine who was killed near Haditha that day was Lance Cpl. Miguel Terrazas, 20, of El Paso, Tex. He was assigned to 3rd Battalion, 1st Marine Regiment, 1st Marine Division, I Marine Expeditionary Force.
    Dr. Walid al-Hadithi, chief physician at Haditha General Hospital, said that about midnight the day of the attack, two U.S. Humvees arrived at the hospital — one carrying the bodies of men and the other those of women and children.
    "They (the marines) told me the women and children were shot in their homes, and they added that the men were saboteurs," Dr. al-Hadithi said. He said he was given a total of 24 bodies. "All had bullet wounds."
    Time said the available evidence did not prove the marines deliberately killed civilians. The magazine, however, said its investigation showed that walls and ceilings in both houses were pockmarked with shrapnel and bullet holes as well as sprays of blood. The video did not show any bullet holes on the outside of the houses — holes that might support the military report of a gunbattle.
    The military, after being shown the videotape in January, concluded civilians were killed by marines, Time said, victims of "collateral damage."
    A human rights group condemned the shooting of civilians in Haditha.
    "Regrettably the American military goes too far in their strikes against civilians because they consider many civilian areas as targets," said Wail al-Tai of the Baghdad Center for Human Rights Studies.
    Human Rights Minister Nirmeen Othman would not comment on the incident.
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  2. #2
    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Marines accused of massacre in Iraq

    Having Marines being police is like having the Paras arrest an Irish suspect in in Gibraltar: it's going to end in tears.

    I thought that Marines are trained for total war: fast paced assaults where destruction of a known enemy is the key. Fighting an invisible for must have finally caused those marines to crack.

    Personally I can't find the Marines 100% guilty as they have been placed in a completely unsuitable situation for far too long. The senior chain of command should apologise and act to ensure that similar mixes of saltpetre don't occur with the local charcoal and sulphur.

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    Coffee farmer extraordinaire Member spmetla's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Marines accused of massacre in Iraq

    Although the Marines probably felt justified in it and might have been caught up in the "heat of battle" intentional civilian deaths are inexcusable and i hope those involved get punished if later facts and evidence that might appear do confirm it as a warcrime

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    L'Etranger Senior Member Banquo's Ghost's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Marines accused of massacre in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube
    Roy's right here. While it's lamentable that this had to happen, the marines are not at fault. The dumbasses in the government who decided we should be using them as a police force are the ones at fault.
    Agreed. Troops like Marines are specialists, and trained to be highly aggressive. Peacekeeping is not what they should be used for.
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    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Marines accused of massacre in Iraq

    Marines are not only trained to be aggresive they are highly disciplined. Plenty of soldiers in recent and past history have been assigned to roles outside their sphere of training. I do not know that as a defense used in a court (outside of incompetence for a task at hand like not being trained in the system resulting in damage), for a moral decision ones specialty is not generally taken into account.

    However we have already see battlefield duress as a reason for a cup of tea and a lie down even if it was for killing prisoners...

    I assume the SAS are at a whole other level of aggression and control then normal troops... yet they are the first pick for peacekeeper missions for the UN by the nations that field them.
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    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Marines accused of massacre in Iraq

    I think that the SAS are covert, so as such shooting whoever is in their way is not going to achieve their mission. Few are as highly focused to "search and kill" as the marines are. After all, they made their name assaulting heavily defended beaches, and still pride themselves on their aggression. There can be few troops who are a worse choice for the peacekeeping mission. National Guard are possibly a better choice.

    Last edited by rory_20_uk; 03-21-2006 at 18:16.
    An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
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    Texan Member BigTex's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Marines accused of massacre in Iraq

    Originally posted by Papewaio
    I assume the SAS are at a whole other level of aggression and control then normal troops... yet they are the first pick for peacekeeper missions for the UN by the nations that field them.
    The SAS is a completely different style of troops then Marines. For starters SAS commando's are unconventional forces, Marines are conventional. The marine have fighting drilled into them since bootcamp. They are broken down and retaught how to respond to any situation. Their taught to respond and kill any aggressors, to obey orders without thought of personal safety. They are not meant to be peace keepers, their meant to kill the enemy regardless of what it takes. SAS commando's are taught much differently then marines, they are special forces. To compare SAS to any U.S. forces you would have to look at the Rangers, Delta, or some other group in the special forces. Rangers, many other U.S. Special Forces are used very effectively in peace keeping missions. You can't compare conventional forces to Special forces, their trained to do completely different things.

    Assigning marines to peacekeeping duties is idiotic, the higher ups need to be blamed for this. Sure you can fault the marines, but they are taught to respond, the constant stress finally caught up to them.
    Last edited by BigTex; 03-21-2006 at 17:38.
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