The best WWII general?

[screwtype]

Wargames of Sealion have always come to the same conclusion, that whatever troops managed to get ashore would be lost as their supply routes were destroyed by the RAF and RN.

Yes Pannonian but that assumes there's some sort of organized opposition to resist the invaders, which there would have been by the time Sealion became a possibility. According to what I've read, there was very little available at the time of Dunkirk to resist a suprise attack.

When there is little or no equipment with which to resist the invaders, I think it would be a whole different ball game. You wouldn't need to get a really large force across the channel, and the supply problems would therefore be diminished.

So I don't think the idea is quite as fanciful as you and Assassin have suggested. It might have at least been worth a try.

[Kagemusha]

Maybe a hypothetic tactics to launch an succesfull invasion could have been to deploy the first Wave from Air against the Channel shorebatteries .Then lay minefield on the Channel.Crossfire from both shores could have been very effective against Royal NavyThis was the tactics Finns and Germans closed down the Gulf Of Finland So that the Red Flag Navy couldnt Operate almost at all in the Baltic Sea.The crossfire from Both sides of Shore batteries from both side of Channel minefields and Kriegsmarine and Luftwaffe could may have succeeded.If the Luftwaffe would have concentrated on Attacking British airfields and radar Network.That would have allowed them Air superiority could have allowed large Airborne Assaults supporting the Invasion.

[Pannonian]

Maybe a hypothetic tactics to launch an succesfull invasion could have been to deploy the first Wave from Air against the Channel shorebatteries .

The RAF may have had something to say about that. Also, depending on the timing, the airfields of northern France may not yet be usable for the Luftwaffe, meaning they'll have to deploy from Belgium or even further east.

Then lay minefield on the Channel.

Who's going to lay the minefield? Are the RN going to leave them alone while they do this?

Crossfire from both shores could have been very effective against Royal Navy

The English shore was controlled by the British, so there is no crossfire. Also, there were destroyers at every base capable of sinking minelayers, with cruisers on hand should anything heavier appear. And if the Kriegsmarine appear in their full glory, the Home Fleet will welcome them to the high seas.

This was the tactics Finns and Germans closed down the Gulf Of Finland So that the Red Flag Navy couldnt Operate almost at all in the Baltic Sea.The crossfire from Both sides of Shore batteries from both side of Channel minefields and Kriegsmarine and Luftwaffe could may have succeeded.If the Luftwaffe would have concentrated on Attacking British airfields and radar Network.That would have allowed them Air superiority could have allowed large Airborne Assaults supporting the Invasion.

The Royal Navy and Royal Air Force has a rather firmer control of the Channel than the Red Navy and Air Force had of the Gulf.

[Kagemusha]

The RAF may have had something to say about that. Also, depending on the timing, the airfields of northern France may not yet be usable for the Luftwaffe, meaning they'll have to deploy from Belgium or even further east.

Who's going to lay the minefield? Are the RN going to leave them alone while they do this?

The English shore was controlled by the British, so there is no crossfire. Also, there were destroyers at every base capable of sinking minelayers, with cruisers on hand should anything heavier appear. And if the Kriegsmarine appear in their full glory, the Home Fleet will welcome them to the high seas.

The Royal Navy and Royal Air Force has a rather firmer control of the Channel than the Red Navy and Air Force had of the Gulf.

You are right but maybe i was little vague like i have a bad custom to be. I think the Airborne Operation could only have been succesfull in the Critical part of Battle of Britain in the time before Germans made the stupid decision to turn their attention against British cities.
About the Minefields.You would be suprised how fast a naval minefield is done A task force of of mine layers could have build the field in one night.
If the Minefied Operation would have been succesfull then it would have taken acces from the main British Navy in the Channel.Also allowing free movement of German transports in the Channel The remaining destroyers the Luwtwaffe could have handled quite easily.
We have to remember that prior to the invasion of Cretes Germany had large amount of Elite Fallschrim Jäegers to take out Key locations by airdrops like Shorebatteries.
Ofcourse this plan would have been very risky.And also this is just speculation,but somebody come up with better plan?

[Pannonian]

You are right but maybe i was little vague like i have a bad custom to be. I think the Airborne Operation could only have been succesfull in the Critical part of Battle of Britain in the time before Germans made the stupid decision to turn their attention against British cities.

That was quite some time after Dunkirk, by which time the British army and the Luftwaffe had had the opportunity to reorganise. Either the Luftwaffe is in no state to dispute the air over the Channel, or the British army is ready to defend the country.

About the Minefields.You would be suprised how fast a naval minefield is done A task force of of mine layers could have build the field in one night.

I thought the Channel was pretty heavily patrolled by the British throughout the war.

If the Minefied Operation would have been succesfull then it would have taken acces from the main British Navy in the Channel.Also allowing free movement of German transports in the Channel The remaining destroyers the Luwtwaffe could have handled quite easily.

How would the transport cross the Channel while it was inaccessible to the RN? Block off the eastern end to prevent the Home Fleet from sailing through? There were plenty of destroyers on the other side, and indeed everywhere. One thing the British were not short of was warships. Also, if Britain was threatened, the RN would have been willing to lose every last ship if required to stop the invasion. CF. Churchill's comment about the loss of the Hood, and Cunningham's comment about the Crete evacuation.

We have to remember that prior to the invasion of Cretes Germany had large amount of Elite Fallschrim Jäegers to take out Key locations by airdrops like Shorebatteries.

The German paras were saved by the capture of an airfield and the defenders failure to counterattack. I don't think this would have been an issue in an invasion of Britain.

Ofcourse this plan would have been very risky.And also this is just speculation,but somebody come up with better plan?

The German High Command thought the invasion of Britain would amount to suicide. Every study since shows them to be right in this assessment.

[Kraxis]

The German paras were saved by the capture of an airfield and the defenders failure to counterattack. I don't think this would have been an issue in an invasion of Britain.

Eben Email... Just up that to a hundred such cases and you would have the situation across southern England.

[Pannonian]

Eben Email... Just up that to a hundred such cases and you would have the situation across southern England.

How would they be dropped in southern England? The RAF was intact and fully ready for any attempted invasion. So you're asking heavily laden bombers to cross the Channel when they were expected, with the defenders aware of any concentrations of aircraft and where they were heading, with a large, skilled defending air force armed with extremely effective and modern fighters awaiting them? And as I've said, the Luftwaffe was still reorganising after the lighting Frecnh campaign. Either you're launching an immediate mass combined fighter and transport attack where any losses will not be recovered as you're still based largely in the east, or you reorganise on the ground and give the RAF and British army time to prepare as well. Also, pilots downed over France will fall into German hands, but England and the surrounding seas are British territory.

I think Belgian neutrality was still nominally being respected by the allies at the time of Eben Emael, meaning they could not respond in time. Everywhere surrounding Britain would be regarded as fair game for the British, so they'll have complete freedom of movement and deployment. Anything not clearly identified as friendly in the seas and air around southern England was liable to be attacked, no matter where or who they were.

Also, how are you planning to disembark your main invasion force? All major ports were prepared for destruction should they be capture by the enemy. And how are you planning to transport your main invasion force? Sealion grabbed all the barges they could find, discovered they weren't seaworthy, and there were fewer skilled crew than there were barges. The capriciousness of the Channel is well known (one of the Mulberyy harbours was destroyed by storms a fortnight after its construction despite being firmly anchored and protected by moles of ships). The proposed river barges were discovered to be vulnerable to anything other than an utterly calm sea. Even a passing destroyer could cause enough turbulence to sink them without needing to fire a shot.

[Pannonian]

Yes Pannonian but that assumes there's some sort of organized opposition to resist the invaders, which there would have been by the time Sealion became a possibility. According to what I've read, there was very little available at the time of Dunkirk to resist a suprise attack.

When there is little or no equipment with which to resist the invaders, I think it would be a whole different ball game. You wouldn't need to get a really large force across the channel, and the supply problems would therefore be diminished.

So I don't think the idea is quite as fanciful as you and Assassin have suggested. It might have at least been worth a try.

The inventory of the defences at Dover show that there was more equipment than the defenders knew what to do with, with those at the sharp end cadging whatever they could without necessarily informing the authorities. At one point I think there was around a company defending the fort with a regiment's worth of guns of assorted makes. I daresay the returnees from Dunkirk could have organised a brigade or two at short notice to make use of these weapons.

Then there are the numerous coastal defences. Southern and south-eastern England was possibly the most heavily fortified area in the world, with lines of defence dating back to Napoleonic days based on the idea of putting very big guns in very thick forts (the Dover guns were used to shell the French coast). In depth. In the 1930s they added anti-tank ditches as well, some of them wide enough to be used as canals. To bypass these defences, you'll have to flank to the north, which takes you into the North Sea and the mercies of the Home Fleet, or west, where you'll have little luck getting panzers through the marshes.

Such were the defences at the time of Dunkirk.