Gov. troops available name jungle

[Dooz]

Bad title I know, but I just got up and can't think of anything better.

I have a suggestion which I think might work better than what's currently implemented for seeing what kind of troops you can build under what type of government when you right-click the MIC. Maybe instead of writing out the entire government name, you could only have the government type number, like II or whatever. So instead of Getic Phyle Komotai Toxotai, it could just be II Komotai Toxotai. It's not really necessary to have the whole name there anyways right? This way, maybe a lot of that mess could be resolved because as of right now, it's pretty useless. As the Getai, I can't figure out anything from that and it's basically a crapshoot what kind of troops I'm getting.

Also, you can still build troops in a newly conquered city even when the gov. building is damaged with the script until you completely destroy it. Is this something that can't be fixed? I know you should just completely get rid of it immediately, I'm just saying it's something that can be exploited, wondering if it was hardcoded.

[LorDBulA]

Yes we cant remedy this. We cant destroy building using script, we can only damage it 100%.
Unfortunately this is something we have to leave to the player.

[Ludens]

Also, you can still build troops in a newly conquered city even when the gov. building is damaged with the script until you completely destroy it. Is this something that can't be fixed? I know you should just completely get rid of it immediately, I'm just saying it's something that can be exploited, wondering if it was hardcoded.

Yes we cant remedy this. We cant destroy building using script, we can only damage it 100%.
Unfortunately this is something we have to leave to the player.

But can't the A.I. exploit this by, for example, building its own homeland troops when it conquers a city with a type I governement of another faction?

[Teleklos Archelaou]

You can only get homeland troops if (1) you have a type1 govt, but also if (2) you are actually in your homeland areas. So we don't have to worry about Makedonians conquering Italy and just reusing the type1 govt to get their best units there since they never could have gotten their homeland troops there anyway.

[Dooz]

So how bout the MIC building browser mess? Any members think that'll change to what I proposed? Or anything else that'll make it easier to see?

[mike^_^]

most of those problems stem from EB detaching the city-size requirement for most of the building complex levels

for instance, if you look at the temples , it only shows you 3 levels, when there's more like 5

[LorDBulA]

So how bout the MIC building browser mess? Any members think that'll change to what I proposed? Or anything else that'll make it easier to see?

Dont use building description to find out where you can recruit what unit.
Use excel spreadsheet that was released some time ago.

[Ludens]

You can only get homeland troops if (1) you have a type1 govt, but also if (2) you are actually in your homeland areas. So we don't have to worry about Makedonians conquering Italy and just reusing the type1 govt to get their best units there since they never could have gotten their homeland troops there anyway.

Excellent. Thanks for the info.

[Dooz]

Dont use building description to find out where you can recruit what unit.
Use excel spreadsheet that was released some time ago.

But... that's what the building browser is for. I don't have excel I don't think. And why use that when you could just see it in-game?

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Isn't the displaying of the type of govt needed for the unit (the display in the MIC window) something that we can't control? It's something we don't want showing - but the game sort of inserts it for some weird reason.

The one thing we could control, and that we might think about I guess - would be building name length so that when you choose an assassin to sabotage a town you could see the percentage chance of success - those do directly come from something we can control.

[nikolai1962]

Bad title I know, but I just got up and can't think of anything better.

I have a suggestion which I think might work better than what's currently implemented for seeing what kind of troops you can build under what type of government when you right-click the MIC. Maybe instead of writing out the entire government name, you could only have the government type number, like II or whatever. So instead of Getic Phyle Komotai Toxotai, it could just be II Komotai Toxotai. It's not really necessary to have the whole name there anyways right? This way, maybe a lot of that mess could be resolved because as of right now, it's pretty useless. As the Getai, I can't figure out anything from that and it's basically a crapshoot what kind of troops I'm getting.

Also, you can still build troops in a newly conquered city even when the gov. building is damaged with the script until you completely destroy it. Is this something that can't be fixed? I know you should just completely get rid of it immediately, I'm just saying it's something that can be exploited, wondering if it was hardcoded.

Unfortunately when you make the recruitment of a unit conditional on a building, e.g government type, the game adds the title of the building next to the unit. It adds the title of the building given in the text files and there is only one title so if you change the title to "II", or something, that will be the displayed title everywhere including the building description.

What's worse is if you have more than one building condition it will display the text for the others all over the building scroll as it seems CA never imagined people doing it this way.

The only way to get round the problem is to make the units directly recruitable by the government buildings. However that means you can't use the different levels of barracks (as the game crashs if you have a building that has capabilities e.g a law bonus and *also* can recruit units which have a building condition e.g different levels of MIC).

In my teach-myself-how-to-mod EB/vanilla game the only way i could see to get round the text problem was to make the units recruitable by the governments and give the MIC's a morale bonus. This gets you all the units at once regardless of the barracks level though so detracts from the whole upgrade thing which is a part of games like this.

So no easy solutions. The government idea is one of the best things in EB imo but it throws up a lot of problems with the hard-coded limitations of the game.

~

As mentioned above the game has no mechanism for allowing buildings to be destroyed by script etc. All the script can do is damage buildings so it is up to players to destroy the pre-existing government buildings. The only way round this is to have faction specific governments so there is a cassegov, aeduigov etc so the player can't use the ai government buildings. This requires one building block per faction out of the hardcoded limit of 64 building blocks, and adds other problems of it's own unrelated to units, so it is all very annoying and complicated and you can usually never mod it exactly the way you want. All you get is a choice between two or three ways of not-quite-what-you-wanted.

[Slider6977]

[QUOTE=nikolai1962]
As mentioned above the game has no mechanism for allowing buildings to be destroyed by script etc. All the script can do is damage buildings so it is up to players to destroy the pre-existing government buildings. QUOTE]

On that note, is there anyway to script buildings to be 100% damaged within certain amount of turns, without the province being conquered? Reason being, I was thinking of mines and such. I know there was a lot of discussion about the fact that mines produce so much income. Therefore, if there was a way to keep the income level high, yet force the player to reconstruct them every year or so, with considerable cost. Reflecting the fact that mines run dry all the time.

Maybe this can be applied to other buildings as well. Say a town grows and you care not to upgrade a port or temple. In reflection of those buildings being to small to adequately sustain a larger population, the game causes 100% damage, thus forcing the player to rebuild it as to reflect additional construction. Again, don't know if it is possible, most likely not if the city is not conquered. Anyway, just a thought.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Can you make the governement building a requirement of the barracks?

That would solve the all-units-at-once thing.

[nikolai1962]

Can you make the governement building a requirement of the barracks?

That would solve the all-units-at-once thing.

Yup, if a particular barracks type was tied to a particular government type then assuming you had enough building slots you could have upgradeable barracks without all the text jumble but theres a compromise between the text problem and the hard-coded building limit. Between what would add most to the game and what would detract least. (If the barracks wasn't solely tied to one government type then you'd still need the government conditions on the recruitment lines that give the text problem.)