Modding Total War: The Future...

[Lusted]

At TWc, and at SCC, there is the idea of a Guild of modders, who can help each other out, and work on mods, finish them then move on.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=46399
http://www.stratcommandcenter.com/fo...howtopic=15365

If we could get a cooperating group of moodders across all the major TW boards, helping to create tools, write tutorials and finish mods i think it would be great.

[Kagemusha]

I think Dol Guldur is on a right track here.I believe that the main problem in modding is in organization.Some inviduals can ofcourse do pretty much everything themselves,but if we look at the larger projects that have been able to make a release like EB. The main thing a succesfull mod seems to need is an big enough pool of modders in the team and that the team leaders can put them in usefull work,becouse this is hobby not a work.Ofcourse the team and subteam leaders should be highly motivated, but the main problem seems to be that most mods have only few active members.Then somekind of amount of others that in some cases dont have the time to work in project and sometimes just doesnt want to commit to the big work that making of a big mod is. Now that the MTW2 is on its way, im very concerned that new MTW2 mods are started all the time with only few team members.Im sad to say this but i believe that the majority will die before MTW2 is even out.I believe that the best way to create more and better mods is to modding teams to grow.

[Monkwarrior]

Well, I disagree (friendly, of course ) in part with you.
For me there are things much more important than a large team, namely: objectives and motivation.

I've worked in only two mods, one for MTW and one for RTW.
In the first one (Reconquista), the entire mod was done by only two people, working almost independently.
Perhaps it is not perfect, but everybody that tried it said it was funny, different and original.

In the second one (ITW), we started also with only two team members. Now we are 6, and one of the reasons for this is that the new members saw that the mod was not only possible, but also probable.

What was in common in both projects? We knew what we wanted to do (clear objectives) and the work of one of the members stimulated the work of the other(s) (motivation).

In both cases I consider that the efforts were fruitful. Both mods were released, with no important bugs, and both try to show the complexity of one small part of the big map (Spain), when we zoom in it. In summary, the objectives were accomplished.

In my opinion, the vision of a new mod must be realistic. Questions like: what do we want to do? how will we do? are we able to do? must have answers from the very beginning of the mod development.
Threads started with something like: "I want to make a phantasy mod, with dozens of factions, hundreds of units, new maps from scratch, new buildings (also in battle maps), scripts... but I don't know a word about modding, Who join the team?" are not realistic.

The normal evolution of a mod should be from short-term feasible objectives, to large modifications involving different aspects of the game.
At least in my opinion.

[LestaT]

[QUOTE=Monkwarrior]In my opinion, the vision of a new mod must be realistic. Questions like: what do we want to do? how will we do? are we able to do? must have answers from the very beginning of the mod development.
Threads started with something like: "I want to make a phantasy mod, with dozens of factions, hundreds of units, new maps from scratch, new buildings (also in battle maps), scripts... but I don't know a word about modding, Who join the team?" are not realistic.
QUOTE]

That's a funny thing and one of many things that we can see in any forum in the mod section, only to have died after few months.

Anyway, in terms of mods however I believe the bigger the mod, the more 'internal' problem will happened. It happened in RTR, in EB I believe and many other mods that hasn't see the light yet after great reviews and previews which I find very sad.

But I do support you idea very much though many idealistic ideas will remains as ideas in this unrealistic world. One should start, then others might follow, or worst, start another one. Human nature.

[Geoffrey S]

What would be good would be a nice, central site where each mod has its own page where updates are posted and help is requested; not a forum, something more like Moddb. Any requests for help can be posted there for specific new recruits (modeller, skinner, scripting etc). Users browsing the site could click on "skinner" and all requests for a skinner would pop up. It would certainly get modding more central and might possibly lead to more focused modding, which is certainly necessary when MTW2 creates far more work in the models and skins department.

People could also advertise their skills, say that they're looking for a mod to help on.

[Divinus Arma]

At TWc, and at SCC, there is the idea of a Guild of modders, who can help each other out, and work on mods, finish them then move on.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=46399
http://www.stratcommandcenter.com/fo...howtopic=15365

If we could get a cooperating group of moodders across all the major TW boards, helping to create tools, write tutorials and finish mods i think it would be great.

Good idea, a modders guild.

Remeber the mod acadmey? That went down in flames after a week. Sad. I enroilled cause I wanted to mod.

[Duke John]

Modding forums generally have not be archived or organized in such a way so as to make easily accessible modding information.

This should get the greatest attention. Appointing a single member to take care of it should not be necessary. A person either cares for it or not and does not need an official position to get the job done.

Enforce a small set of rules:
- Include the question in the thread title when asking a question. Promote the use of background of information. Perhaps even close "I need help!" threads with "Campaign is not working, why?".
- Answered questions related to a tutorial are deleted and the answer is added to the tutorial.

And:
- Bits of modding related info found on the entire Org or other forums should be collected and added to the tutorial forum.
- Make a Post-mortem of a failed modding project. Or an article about EB and lay out how many files were edited, models made, the amount of people joined and left, how much time it took to complete certain stages, etc. The numbers are pretty huge and should give a good insight to people how much time goes into a big mod.
On a smaller scale tell how much time it takes to complete a single model (different LODs, textures). Then people can multiply it to see wether 50 new units is that feasible.

[Lusted]

I suggested a guild because at the moment the community is spread around several sites such as .com, here, TWC and SCC. The problem is that at the moment at TWc i am perhaps the most skilled modder answering new modders questions, but i do not really have the time to post in the detail that they need. If we had one site, or all the information needed complied better, it would allow theses questions to be anwered quicker, and so new modders learn faster.

We also really need to make people aware of the sheer scale needed for a huge mod such as EB, many new modders just have no clue about what is involved. Having a couple of articles about why mods failed, and how much work went into succesfull mods would help this no end, as we culd point people to them to make sure they know what they are getting into.

[Dol Guldur]

Yes, and I like the idea of the time estimation. A "Thinking of Starting A Mod? Then Read This First!" pinned post would be useful.

As an example, the Fourth Age campaign map must have been about 6 months in research and then concept design before even the first TGA pixel was created; not so much a problem for maps set in the real world but it would give someone an idea if they had a fantasy mod and wanted the map accurate.

If someone knows this then they might think twice before starting a fantasy mod, though perhaps Middle-earth is not a good example as other fantasy maps are likely less demanding due to the lack of information on them.

Concept design for units is important too - far more time is spent on conceptual art & design for a unit than the actual modelling and texturing. If you have no base reference (i.e. your mod is not historical or is not based on a movie) you might spend a great proportion of your time researching text for clues as to how the unit should look and trying to fill in the gaps in the right spirit of the book it is based upon.

All in all, beginners should probably start off with a roman-era mod even if it is a small one.

But I think an article discussing this and warning would-be mod starters would be a great idea. I'd certainly chip in for the fantasy side as well as coding time considerations.

[Duke John]

I suggested a guild because at the moment the community is spread around several sites such as .com, here, TWC and SCC. The problem is that at the moment at TWc i am perhaps the most skilled modder answering new modders questions, but i do not really have the time to post in the detail that they need. If we had one site, or all the information needed complied better, it would allow theses questions to be anwered quicker, and so new modders learn faster.

Well, the Org was around before TWC and SCC I think the last thing we need is another website to make the fragmentation even greater.

[Epistolary Richard]

Yes, and I like the idea of the time estimation. A "Thinking of Starting A Mod? Then Read This First!" pinned post would be useful.

We have this:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=35969

You should feel free to add to it from your own experience.

Having a couple of articles about why mods failed, and how much work went into succesfull mods would help this no end, as we culd point people to them to make sure they know what they are getting into.

I'd be very interested to read why some projects never reached a release. I think, though, the danger here would be making public private disagreements between team members. But presuming someone could write a dispassionate account identifying the problems hit and the lessons to be learned for the future then I think it could be very interesting.

I suggested a guild because at the moment the community is spread around several sites such as .com, here, TWC and SCC. The problem is that at the moment at TWc i am perhaps the most skilled modder answering new modders questions, but i do not really have the time to post in the detail that they need. If we had one site, or all the information needed complied better, it would allow theses questions to be anwered quicker, and so new modders learn faster.

The modding community is dispersed because new modders come through in different sites and mod teams that come together choose one as their primary hang-out. I don't know whether you'd ever get them to move to another single site. But for information though, I wholeheartedly support linking between the different sites of the modding community - if there's a tutorial on TWC that answers someone's question then I won't hestitate to link over it, equally I'll link over to the Org if someone asks a question over on another site.

I remember Myrddraal posted a thread of Org tutorials on TWC a while ago and Sim has a similar thread stickied.

One way to organize the tutorials/discoveries would be to have a section divided into different areas: campaign map, units, battle map, tools, interface, audio, animations, etc. and then a link to a discussion thread. I have tried to set this up with my own tutorials to keep the tutorial thread clean and easily researchable. The discussion thread would include a link to the tutorial of course.

Your own tutorials, Dol Guldur, and the ongoing support you provide for them are are a model for others to follow. These different sections - would you propose they be in different forums or just different sections within an index thread?

Too Many Mods!
NO NO NO NO NO! How can you have too many mods? I know most never get finished, but I think saying we have too many is missing the point. You have to consider WHY people start these mods. They want to make something partly for themselves, and partly because they see all the top class mods getting praise and attention, and want a slice of that! Nothing wrong with that.... we all have to start somewhere.

Well, quite. Having lots of completed mods is great, but a mod that's never completed, that never even makes a release, doesn't help develop the community at all.

I most certainly agree with why not make a few skins first (for example) - completing bricks and not struggling with houses. My question would be how best to encourage this kind of behaviour - given that we do not want to discourage people from stating full blown mods if they want to.

A good point was raised about IP for mod content. Personally, I don't see why anyone should give away their hard work if they don't want to. If they have made the mesh...the skin...thetext files, it's down to them what happens if the mod folds.

Indisputably - but wouldn't you agree it's better for the community to release what they have made? If so, then it's a matter of how do we best encourage people to do so?

And the other point on IP was the reuse and updating of released material - but it's better for that conversation to take place in the IP thread.

[Lusted]

I agree that we do not need more fragmentation

I always try to link to whatever tutorial is best when answering questions at TWc, most of the time i link to ones at TWc because im lazy, but when i have the time i link to ones here as well. Having information shared better between the sites can only help the community, as information is easier to find.