A Brave New "America"

[KafirChobee]

This is a rant ... but all I say can be confirmed.

Others will be more objective, or continue to bury their heads in the warm Republican sand. Others will see other things that I have omitted, or perceive those I mention in a similar manner - but with different perspectives of their real affect on ... anything.

1) America now accepts that pre-emptive war (as long as they are the pre-emptors) is acceptable.
2) America now accepts torture as an acceptable device to force a confession from a suspect (not as though we haven't always allowed it - keep someone awake for 48 hours and I guarantee you they will confess to killing Kennedy - Lincoln for that matter).
3) the disallowance of "habeaus corpus" (sp) - we no longer allow the idea that a suspect is innocent; that even if they are that they have rights, and we are more intent (especially if they are innocent) to prove their guilt - than if they had actually done something. Boy/ Ain't we a great country?
4) Our new And improved disfunctional congress. It is almost as if they all have something to lose against a President with a 32% approval rating. What could that possibly be? $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ The Dems never looked so weak, I mean they talk the talk ... but they ain't got no walk ---- after all they are a club owned by the same entity. Y'all know?
5) It is now permissable for an administration to hand out "non-bid" contracts"
- unless of course the other party owns one or both houses of congress - in which case they must share the profits.
6) The acceptance of "gerrymandering" by the partys' has allowed that we now have a "99%" recidevism, I mean re-election rate for incumbents. Talk about a deal. Imagine, we now live under a one party system - but, those in power allow us the dellusion that we still have choices. What a great bunch a guys - don't ya think?
7) $8.33 Trillion dollar debt (er, deficit .... like it is cool to spend 3X what one earns a year .... well, actually if a corporation contributes a significant amount through the proper channels ...... even if the CEO and other officers are caught - Bush guarantees Presidential pardons. Believe me - no one is going to jail under his watch (besides Martha that is).
8) Create a war to prove you are better than your Dad - whom once called you an ungreatful piece of flom - and win a war with 1/5 the men he did. Then ignore all his advice and those of other presidents on how to secure the area being raped by ... anyone that had (s) a mind to.
9) Create a new language to define the mistakes as being successes ... "Mission accomplished" (while women, museums, 60,000 tons of munitions, etc. - are being raped). Be inventive - always attack, especially when you are wrong.

Bewware world! We nows gots us a news America - and we never does anything wrongs. After all "Might is right".

[Divinus Arma]

Do you realize how absurd this rant is? Thanks for your contribution. The problem is that you would never listen to anybody else and consider factual information. The comment about "besting daddy" on top of the other crup, proves this beyond a shadow of a doubt.

You want a rant? How about having a discussion about what is frustrating you in the United States, offering facts that support your assumptions, and then consider the opinions of others.

I am just as frustrated with liberal screeching as you are sick of perceived injustices in U.S. policy.

Would you like a discussion or is this just a monologue?

[Divinus Arma]

It's not the content I have a problem with, generally. It is the tone.

I see problems too, but I want discussion not "uSA is suX! BUsh suX!"

I just get aggravated when I see this same screechy whining attitude with NO answers. Like all dems- "rudderless" as Lemur put it. You see problems? Fine, then give us solutions!

[Divinus Arma]

This is a rant ... but all I say can be confirmed. (size added by one Mr. Divinus Arma to emphasize the point.)

Others will be more objective, or continue to bury their heads in the warm Republican sand. Others will see other things that I have omitted, or perceive those I mention in a similar manner - but with different perspectives of their real affect on ... anything.

1) America now accepts that pre-emptive war (as long as they are the pre-emptors) is acceptable.

To some degree. Yes. That is not a blanket pass. There are many conservatives who are almost isolationist. On the other end are those who seek to export democracy by force as policy. Most conservatives are some where in the middle. If a pre-emptive campaign as part of a larger strategy is deemed justifiable on its merits, than I say lets go. However, the lesson of Iraq is let's be damn sure about it first. I also have no problem with other western nations engaging in pre-emptive strikes to protect their own country. Israel comes to mind.

2) America now accepts torture as an acceptable device to force a confession from a suspect (not as though we haven't always allowed it - keep someone awake for 48 hours and I guarantee you they will confess to killing Kennedy - Lincoln for that matter).

Gimme a break. This is so soft it isn't even funny. The first 48 hours of Marine Corps boot camp is done without sleep. And I can't even tell you how many times I have done that voluntarily to get the mission accomplished. As for waterboarding, standing up, sitting in an uncomfortable position for hours, and other silly little games- did most of 'em in boot camp (not the waterboarding though). This is real pussy stuff guys. A construction worker suffers more. As does a middle school teacher or even a parent of a rowdy kid.

3) the disallowance of "habeaus corpus" (sp) - we no longer allow the idea that a suspect is innocent; that even if they are that they have rights, and we are more intent (especially if they are innocent) to prove their guilt - than if they had actually done something. Boy/ Ain't we a great country?

So I guess you are in the "give terrorists a lawyer" category, eh? You are hyperinflating the issue to apply to regular joes. Jose Padilla hardly qualified as a regular Joe.

4) Our new And improved disfunctional congress. It is almost as if they all have something to lose against a President with a 32% approval rating. What could that possibly be? $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ The Dems never looked so weak, I mean they talk the talk ... but they ain't got no walk ---- after all they are a club owned by the same entity. Y'all know?

Agree with ya on this one. They all suck. At least Frist has a slightly larger set up Cojones and is willing to buck the suck-up-to-illegals trend.

5) It is now permissable for an administration to hand out "non-bid" contracts"
- unless of course the other party owns one or both houses of congress - in which case they must share the profits.

Anybody know more about this? Are we just talking Haliburton here or what? Provides linkage por favore.

6) The acceptance of "gerrymandering" by the partys' has allowed that we now have a "99%" recidevism, I mean re-election rate for incumbents. Talk about a deal. Imagine, we now live under a one party system - but, those in power allow us the dellusion that we still have choices. What a great bunch a guys - don't ya think?

AGREED. Big time. Its outrageous. I think Canada provides a successful model for redistricting. Beirut, BP, or anyone else from the El Norte Grande: Any of you guys know which of your provinces implemented the annual citizen redistricting groups? What is that called?

7) $8.33 Trillion dollar debt (er, deficit .... like it is cool to spend 3X what one earns a year .... well, actually if a corporation contributes a significant amount through the proper channels ...... even if the CEO and other officers are caught - Bush guarantees Presidential pardons. Believe me - no one is going to jail under his watch (besides Martha that is).

We'll see. When Ken Lay gets fried, we shall see. Don't forget- Duke Cunningham got nailed down here in San Diego and nobody came to his rescue (that SoB).

8) Create a war to prove you are better than your Dad - whom once called you an ungreatful piece of flom - and win a war with 1/5 the men he did.

Wow. Follows along the lines of:

but all I say can be confirmed

Seems like malicious speculation to me. But I understand. It makes him easy to hate that way. And it is a very easy jump to make when you already do not like the guy.

Then ignore all his advice and those of other presidents on how to secure the area being raped by ... anyone that had (s) a mind to.

Agreed, mostly. Shoulda drafted all you young bucks to take rounds for us. That is a joke btw.

9) Create a new language to define the mistakes as being successes ... "Mission accomplished" (while women, museums, 60,000 tons of munitions, etc. - are being raped). Be inventive - always attack, especially when you are wrong.

Both parties engage in this. Take a look at the McKinney fiasco. That broad punched a cop and she is already going to press charges against the cop while calling him a racist. Nice.

Bewware world! We nows gots us a news America - and we never does anything wrongs. After all "Might is right".

What I fear even more is if the pendulum swings back. The policy of this administration may have been to aggresive for the feeble public to handle, and as a result they will vote in a Democratic majority who will destroy the national security system beyond repair. No, I am not fear mongering. Dems national security policy is tree-hugging pussification of America. Clinton virtually anihilated out human intel during his reign and backed out of any conflict that lost a life. You cant send missles to do a soldier's job smetimes.

[KafirChobee]

First off DIVA - I ain't 15 years old. I am a VN vet (even if it was for only a few weeks befor i got mine, another 12 months on the ROK).

Some of what you say almost (ALMOST) makes sense - except the parts that concern my (our) freedom. Accepting that what Bush43 did (taking us into an illegitemate war) is fine - it is your right to accept the blunders of those you worship.

That you patranise me - that is offensive. That you claim to have been in war? That is offensive. My son is there (Iraq), and nephew just returned. So, if you want to accuse me or my family from hiding from defending this nation from .... anything (regardless of the made up idea) forget about it.

Defending Bush is a losing proposition. You can't win when the peep is a loser, and his causes are all for the wealthy (and Wealthy Arabs - the boys he was raised with).

[Divinus Arma]

First off DIVA - I ain't 15 years old. I am a VN vet (even if it was for only a few weeks befor i got mine, another 12 months on the ROK).

Good for you. Thank you for your service. But I never made any mention to your service or mine here. It usually never helps our arguments back here unless our service is directly relevant to a point of expertise. Kinda like an electrician debating State power policy, ya know? "Well, I was an electrician back in '83...". If we were having a discussion on the complexities of residential electrical planning in construction, then that would be a different story.

Some of what you say almost (ALMOST) makes sense - except the parts that concern my (our) freedom. Accepting that what Bush43 did (taking us into an illegitemate war) is fine - it is your right to accept the blunders of those you worship.

I don't worship him. I think I have made that evident in the What do you think of Bush NOW thread. Either way, I accept it, ya. I think that the intelligence and reasoning at the time was valid justification. Now that the intelligence has turned out to be crap, I see our continuance in the Iraqi war as both a strategic and ethical imperative. I can elaborate, but why bother.

That you patranise me - that is offensive.

Please tell me the comment that you found patronizing. I will be glad to clarify it.

That you claim to have been in war? That is offensive.

What the heck are you talking about? I served in Afghanistan. So that doesn't "count" in your book of badassedness? I think I know some D-day vets that might question the badassedness of your experience in Khe San. I won't even discuss this further with you. So if you want to flame my service, feel free.

My son is there (Iraq), and nephew just returned.

Excellent. I commend their sacrifice. I am sure you must be very proud.

So, if you want to accuse me or my family from hiding from defending this nation from .... anything (regardless of the made up idea) forget about it.

Please tell me the comment where I said you were "hiding", and I will be happy to clarify it for you.

Defending Bush is a losing proposition. You can't win when the peep is a loser, and his causes are all for the wealthy (and Wealthy Arabs - the boys he was raised with).

This is fun. Of course, just as you argue that Bush engages in actions striclty for the wealthy, I would say that Dems do the same thing. Case in point: Both parties support illegal immigration in order to exploite the immigrants. Both parties want the vote, and while Bush wants to hook up big business, the dems want to import poverty so that they will always have a victim class to represent. Both parties have their faults. Being a constituional conservative, I hate 'em both, but find the GOP more palatable since I get to keep my property under conservative economic theory.

[Divinus Arma]

Good for you. Thank you for your service. But I never made any mention to your service or mine here. It usually never helps our arguments back here unless our service is directly relevant to a point of expertise. Kinda like an electrician debating State power policy, ya know? "Well, I was an electrician back in '83...". If we were having a discussion on the complexities of residential electrical planning in construction, then that would be a different story.

Clearly I am a moron. I totally missed my early comment. I must be on mars or seomthing. I obviously made a reference to my service in my last post. I must be suffering from amnesia since I made that post like an hour ago.

Ladies and gentleman, I have officially destroyed my own credibility in one single blow due to a lack of edit power. Feel free to make fun of me, laugh and point, throw tomatoes, or anything else you would like to do in order to denegrate my worthless self. I certainly deserve it.

[doc_bean]

The democrats should just stop their weak attempts and a new party should rise to oppose the GOP.

Really, they're to blame for everything !

just like the Welsh

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

bean, you'd best mind out or I'll convince the scary Mexicans to try to reclaim the low countries by force (because, you know, like the American southwest, they used to be part of the Spanish Empire).

Damn, then the reconquest of that part of the Empire would be, the fault of a Welshman.

I apologise bean, you were correct, everything IS our fault.

[Moros]

Yeah how can some ignore those poor rich people.

[BDC]

"Mission accomplished" (while women, museums, 60,000 tons of munitions, etc. - are being raped)

Off topic a little, but I don't think that many bombs were raped, and if they were it was probably the rapists who came off worse.

[rory_20_uk]

Let's hope the rapist "exploded" before the bomb did...

Ahem...

To reiterate again what could be done better in America is truely a waste of time. Possibly spending less money on the war and the aftermath might have been nice? What about no war at all, or at least a plan.

And yes the deficit is at an all time high. Perhaps not cutting taxes might have been a good thing - balancing a budget and all that? But the people want the usual bread and circuses, so that's not going to win votes...

Marines go without sleep for 48 hours. Erm, so what? They choose to go into that environment, and regardless of how tough things are they know:

They want to be there
It WILL stop
They can quit at any time.

The same can not be said for the torture of suspects. And yes, maybe it is nothing for a big tough guy like yourself and you'd be laughing inside the mask you have to wear all the time on your hands and knees. Others aren't as tough as you are, and for them it is torture.

If you can't see your son having it done as a routine by the police if he is a suspect, then why should others have it done to them?

[Divinus Arma]

If you can't see your son having it done as a routine by the police if he is a suspect, then why should others have it done to them?

Uhh... routine? Just a bit of an exaggeration, hmmm? Just a smidge? A wee bit? A tad?

Think about your comment for a second. Please.

[Reverend Joe]

This is fun!

[master of the puppets]

zorba just really gives the conversation a political and intelligent side does'nt he.