The futility of upgrading stone walls

[Horatius]

If I ever Upgrade my Stone Walls, or face a siege in a city that started with Large or Epic, or in a computer city my Garrisson gets Mauled to death before enemy siege towers even get to the city.

The Siege Towers destroy my units before any engagements which is really stupid.

I personally suggest that if Epic and Large Stone Walls are only built for the public order benefit they should be destroyable incase the enemy is getting to your borders and you need to dowgrade to Stone Wall (5 turns, plenty of time for your city to be prepared to face the Horde that is besieging your nieghbour and will go after you next).

[x-dANGEr]

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=61764.

[Rhubarbmisterwellington]

Why use stone walls, anyway?

I have to say, I never upgrade beyond a pallisade, as I never defend the walls. I play as the sassenids/carthagians/anyone with big, pointy sticks, and tend to just defend the square - this way, the attackers are funnelled onto the points of the pikes, and your kill ratio goes WAY up! To be honest, with Antioch especially, I tend to allow the Egyptians to siege me without hinderance, as I know that they'll loose the best part of a 1000 men in an assault - a much better (and eventually more economically ruinous- for the enemy) result.

My fav. method is to put a block of 4 pikes a little way back from the entrance to the square with a further 2 units at right angles to them. The AI surges forward onto the block of 4, my 2 pikes take them in the flank and they immediately rout. This gives me time to send some reserves (the back 2 units from the block of 4) to the beleagured 1/2 units fending off the AIs flanking attacks in time to defeat them and then throw all my forces into blocking the AI rallied troups attacking again, this time with support from their general. Works every time for me, even just using militia hoplites and peasants! (btw, peasants are excellent for chasing down routing troops!)

[gardibolt]

Any faction with archers benefits hugely from stone walls, raining death down upon the besiegers.

Fighting in the square feels like an exploit to me, so I don't do it.

[Severous]

I just cottoned onto something after reading this thread.

There are three levels of wall beyond wooden walls. Stone, large and epic.

I dont recall coming across some of the larger walls. Athens, early in the Brutii campaign, used ladders and seige towers but i dont know what sort of stone wall it was.

Is the 'problem' with machine gun seige towers confined to any particular type of wall ? ie is Stone alright..but not large nor epic ?

[Horatius]

Stone is fine, you lose 2-3 soldiers, which is alright.

However Large and Epic are equally idiotic investments (Especially in Rome Total War because they don't give Public Order Bonuses yet), becuse the Siege Towers have Machine Guns for them.