Most Pointless Battle

**King Kurt** · 04-26-2006, 11:36

Revisiting this thread I am reminded of Monte Cassino from WW2. Here, the Allies as part of their slog up the Italian Peninsula, slugged it out with a handfull of German defenders - mainly paratroopers from memory. Massive amounts of munitions were dropped on the monastry and the town and monastry were severly damaged. You could argue that the whole Italian campaign was a waste, but why the allies didn't use their air/naval superioity to outflank resistance by landing behind them, I never know.
I visted Monte Cassino about 15 years ago and was really moved - how could such a beautiful place be the centre of a terrible battle and how on earth did the allies even think of attacking it - the monastry is perched upon a sheer mountain - almost impossible to approach, let alone attack. From memory it finally fell when the sledgehammer tactics were replaced by stealth and good quality infantry infiltrated the german lines. I would recommend anybody to go there - it is truely a moving place.

**Kraxis** · 04-26-2006, 16:47

Originally Posted by King Kurt

Revisiting this thread I am reminded of Monte Cassino from WW2. Here, the Allies as part of their slog up the Italian Peninsula, slugged it out with a handfull of German defenders - mainly paratroopers from memory. Massive amounts of munitions were dropped on the monastry and the town and monastry were severly damaged. You could argue that the whole Italian campaign was a waste, but why the allies didn't use their air/naval superioity to outflank resistance by landing behind them, I never know.

German Falschirmjägers indeed. At least they were the most prominent infantry force there.

But abuot that last comment... Can you say Anzio?

Perhaps that one alone could be joined with many of these others, as it ceased to be a battle with a point after it bogged down.

**Brenus** · 04-26-2006, 20:56

Yes, and (hi hi hi), it was the French of Gal Juin, battle of the Carigliano…

**Seamus Fermanagh** · 04-26-2006, 21:37

They did try a naval flanking effort -- Anzio. Stunningly enough, the local commander was not much of a Patton type, and moved slowly when a quick rush would have netted him Rome and the entire western half of the rail nexus -- and probably put the Allies up into the Po valley before an Axis line re-stabilized.

The Italian campaign was of limited value, though it did allow for basing the 15th AF and did tie down some German troops (though never as many as had been hoped for).

**King Kurt** · 04-27-2006, 10:36

Yes - I am aware of Anzio and the lost opportunities - the wonder was why they never repeated it. In general my thoughts were more around that Monte Cassino just seems to be a place not to have a battle - a beautiful religious building perched on top of a sheer mountain - a battle over a building that should not be fought over in a place which is virtually unaccessable.

**matteus the inbred** · 04-27-2006, 10:49

Originally Posted by King Kurt

Yes - I am aware of Anzio and the lost opportunities - the wonder was why they never repeated it. In general my thoughts were more around that Monte Cassino just seems to be a place not to have a battle - a beautiful religious building perched on top of a sheer mountain - a battle over a building that should not be fought over in a place which is virtually unaccessable.

That's the problem with pre-gunpowder era strongpoints...they tend to be in as inaccessible a location as possible! Crusader castles got built in some unbelievable locations, halfway up sheer mountains and stuff. What you say about Anzio is true though, so far as I know. Perhaps this might lead to a thread about the most stupidly difficult and inaccessible battlefields in history...!

**Kraxis** · 04-27-2006, 12:43

Inaccessable mountaintops ar perfect for spotting artillery. That was very much why the fight was done.
But also the mountains had the valleys and less problematic areas, such as the village of Cassino. That was a very hardfought area. The Allies tried to push through these openings, and it didn't work, partially because of the mountain.

**Azi Tohak** · 05-05-2006, 03:32

My two cents is... well... WWI. We're still paying for that one. The Italian wars of the French and Spanish (Hapsburgs?). I do think the Italian wars are interesting with the small but noticeable change from Medieval to early modern armies. Pavia, The Garigliano and more. I really wish I could find CWC Oman's history book. Written 110 years ago, it is still a great read.

Azi