The human mind in battle.

[Upxl]

I’ve always wondered what is going trough a persons mind when being in a battle.
Well actually, I wonder how I would’ve react.
Visualize something Like D day Normandy: Fresh out of bootcamp never seen a
Battle in your entire life, stuffed with 50 other guys in little amphibious boats.
When all of a sudden that gate opens and bullets are flying everywhere.
Half your mates drop dead and explosions all around…

What is going trough a persons mind at that point?

I cant help wondering, would I put my mind blank and start running like a possessed, or would I crumble in to a little ball to afraid to move.


Feel free to enlighten me on this here.
Also I would welcome you’re most likely reaction.

[Csargo]

I’ve always wondered what is going trough a persons mind when being in a battle.
Well actually, I wonder how I would’ve react.
Visualize something Like D day Normandy: Fresh out of bootcamp never seen a
Battle in your entire life, stuffed with 50 other guys in little amphibious boats.
When all of a sudden that gate opens and bullets are flying everywhere.
Half your mates drop dead and explosions all around…

What is going trough a persons mind at that point?

I cant help wondering, would I put my mind blank and start running like a possessed, or would I crumble in to a little ball to afraid to move.


Feel free to enlighten me on this here.
Also I would welcome you’re most likely reaction.

I think the only person that is able to answer that question is someone who has been through that sort of thing. But alas I am not that person.

[Kagemusha]

I havent seen combat so i cant say.All i can say is what my grandfather told me he fought in both Winter and Continuation War and he sayed war is disgusting and terrible thing that has no glory.I remember when i was kid visiting my grandparents sometimes he yelled in his dreams,it was something terrible to hear for a little kid.So lets just hope we will be spared of War.

[Major Robert Dump]

Redleg or Gawain could tell you what warfare is like. I've been shot at while repossessing cars, and when I was deputy marshall for a municipal court I had a 40 second standoff with a familiy member of a defendant who brought a gun to court, but no shots were fired (there were people behind him otherwise I would have). Afterwards I took the biggest crap of my life.

[Redleg]

You run the gambit of emotions, all depending on what you are facing at the time.

My experience is different then others who fought in Vietnam or even more recent.

Fear, nervous, disgust, relief, eager, sleeplessness, stress, and shame where all some of the emotions experienced in facing combat.

[Banquo's Ghost]

Redleg put it well - it's quite a subjective experience and depends on the situation you're in. My experience was in anti-terrorism and peacekeeping actions, which is very different from the D-Day landings you used as an example.

Several of my senior colleagues had been in the Falklands Conflict and had widely different viewpoints. One thing they would have agreed on though, is that it is very difficult to convey what one thinks to someone who has never experienced a combat situation.

Training is a big part of it - if you've been trained well, you tend not to think emotionally until it's over.

Who was it said 'War is long periods of utter boredom punctated by moments of sheer terror'?

[Divinus Arma]

Tunnel vision.

[Ice]

I would guess fear, sick stomach, uncertainity. I could only imagine though.

[KafirChobee]

Abject terror, that one puts aside by automatically responding to the conditioning of their military training. Things seem to slow down and speed up of their own accord - like a time warp. I once watched a large piece of shrapnel pass by my head in a lazy laconic way, could actually see it spinning slowly (my life flashed before me in a nano-second - was very depressing for me, I was only 20), then everything returned to normal time which seemed fast as h'. Firefights seem to last forever, even if its only a few minutes.

Know some loved it though. Met one sgt. that wanted to go back for his 4th tour ('nam), but the last wounds he had received kept him from it (tore his legs up pretty good). This guy claimed to be the most decorated GI since Audey Murphy (every medal of valour 2 or 3 times, 'cept no MoH), might have been to.

My cousin (4th Inf. Div,, Americal - 1969) once said it was like watching a movie, you seperate yourself from it .... eventually. You run into a fire fight, and the next time out your loaded for bear - 200 rounds, 10 grenades, etc.. But, as day after day there is no contact the less WMD one takes, generally settling on 100 rounds and a few grenades. Then there's a contact - and the cycle begins a new (loaded for bear). He will tell you that he doesn't remember his first engagement, but he does remember the fear.

[Major Robert Dump]

No one else but me yet has mentioned bowel movements. I'm telling you, there is no better laxative than being put in a situatuation where you have time to realize that you could very well die. I like to call in "anxiety poops" which explains why so many people who are hurt/kille crap their pants i guess. In my own defense, I didnt crap my pants but I did make it to the bathroom, and I swear to freaking god the entire bowl was filled above the water when I finished, like 5 years worth of feces all in one sitting, I felt 10 pounds lighter and if I had a cell phone at the time I would have probably taken a picture; I know that if you go on a purification diet and only take water and pills for a few months instead of eating you will still be crapping solids from all the garbage built up in your intestines, and I suspect that sort of thing is what happens when your body goes into "oh hell" mode, if you are not used to it.

I'm no soldier, so maybe you guys who experienced it regularly (no pun intended) didn't get the same effect as me, but man I'm telling you, if the doctor ever tells you u need to poop more forgoe the fiber drinks and exlax and have some friends pretend to rob you that will do the trick

This disgusting moment brought to u by MRD

[BDC]

No one else but me yet has mentioned bowel movements. I'm telling you, there is no better laxative than being put in a situatuation where you have time to realize that you could very well die. I like to call in "anxiety poops" which explains why so many people who are hurt/kille crap their pants i guess. In my own defense, I didnt crap my pants but I did make it to the bathroom, and I swear to freaking god the entire bowl was filled above the water when I finished, like 5 years worth of feces all in one sitting, I felt 10 pounds lighter and if I had a cell phone at the time I would have probably taken a picture; I know that if you go on a purification diet and only take water and pills for a few months instead of eating you will still be crapping solids from all the garbage built up in your intestines, and I suspect that sort of thing is what happens when your body goes into "oh hell" mode, if you are not used to it.

I'm no soldier, so maybe you guys who experienced it regularly (no pun intended) didn't get the same effect as me, but man I'm telling you, if the doctor ever tells you u need to poop more forgoe the fiber drinks and exlax and have some friends pretend to rob you that will do the trick

This disgusting moment brought to u by MRD

I'm sensing a money-making opportuinity here. Glad I'll (hopefully) never go through anything like that.

Paintballs flying inches over my head was scary enough.

[Ice]

Paintballs flying inches over my head was scary enough.

Paintball is fun, except when you get shot in the back of the head.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Or the neck, or the balls, or the inner thigh, or maybe the Solar Plexus, depending how hard you are.

I'm fairly hard in that respect, but thats for another time.

I can't talk about actual experience but I can tell you from what I've read that the stress is about the biggest you'll ever get, especially in modern warfare, being the way it is.

Apparently 140-180 days of combat is all most men can take. This is the problem the Americans had in 'Nam, they left the guys there too long and some of them couldn't hack it.

[Alexanderofmacedon]

I'm sure it's crazy. Of course nothing prepares you for battle like a battle, but these recruits do at least have bootcamp and training under their belts. It may be good for something...I hope...

[Upxl]

Well this has all been very enlightening.
Especially the bowel cleansing part.

But to get a good solid answer to my question I guess we need someone who has really been there.

To bad no WOII veterans visit the Org nowadays.
I’ll bet allot of us would hang on to every word they said.

KafirChobee:

I’ve heard a story about an American cop how was being shot at.
He said he could see the bullet so slowly he could actually dodge it.
Don’t know if that’s possible though.
Then again,… The mind can do some crazy ****

[The Black Ship]

Actually the "slowing" of time is being studied, and there's an article in Discover this month detailing an experiment. Seems people can see messages that have been flashed too quickly to be read when placed in situation of high stress. Meaning, a person not under duress cannot read LCD messages flashed at a high frequency rate, whilst one in a high stress situation (bungee jumpers were the "guinea pigs") can read the message and repeat it back to the experimentor...presumably after dangling for a bit.

I have a theory that time perception is based on heart rate, either causal or chemical.

I had a near death experience in an elevator shaft when I worked for Otis. Time seemed to stand still. I can still remember the writing on the rail I climbed, "12 N lowrise". The author had terrible penmanship.

[yesdachi]

I have had several people tell me that in the initial moment of action your training kicks in and you react the way you’ve been conditioned to react. It’s the longer situations where you have time to second guess yourself and overanalyze things.

[Major Robert Dump]

Well this has all been very enlightening.
Especially the bowel cleansing part.

But to get a good solid answer to my question I guess we need someone who has really been there.

To bad no WOII veterans visit the Org nowadays.
I’ll bet allot of us would hang on to every word they said.

KafirChobee:

I’ve heard a story about an American cop how was being shot at.
He said he could see the bullet so slowly he could actually dodge it.
Don’t know if that’s possible though.
Then again,… The mind can do some crazy ****

You do reAlize ThAt moSt WWII vets are either dead or dying, and the ones in good health have jelly for brains, much less know how to use the internet and frequent gaming forums. You better up your criteria to Vietnam if you want battle info.

Normandy is history

[Major Robert Dump]

And the crap about dodging bullets is bollocks, especially since at certain range you will get hit before you even hear the shot. The best you can do is watch their hands and fingers to see when they squeeze the trigger, at best giving you a millisecond to make your move, but most likely not

Gunfights arent the matrix or remo williams. there is a flash and you are dead

[Alexanderofmacedon]

There are some war vets here, but I don't know which wars.

[KafirChobee]

You know, what you are looking for is a simple answer to a complex question. No one knows for certain how they will react in their initial incident of combat, or what they will feel - aside from some form of fear. The adrenalin rush is a kick though.

I sorta lucked out in the Army (67-70), going from Signal Corp ('nam), to Infantry (PRC-10 operator on the ROK, 1/17th), to being selected for the Finance Corp there (out of 13,000 men - even though I didn't have a H.S. Diploma; pure luck - the man that screened me was from my town of record - Downers Grove, and the Colonel of Finance was from Chicago. The Col. made me swear to get my GED and attend college courses, changed my life). Point is, when I came home, I was assigned to Ft.Polk, LA (70% of the infantrymen that went to 'nam were trained there) in In-and-Out Processing - I processed nearly all the men that returned from overseas (thousands). First thing one does is welcome them home, sooner or later (when they notice your own ribbons - the PH and Expeditionary Medal especially, no one knew what the latter was and all thought it looked neat and wanted one) they start talking about an experience. Most of them had a funny story to tell, well funny in away - to the soldiers that heard the shot fired in anger. I was also selected to pay the men in the hospital - Polk was a combat trauma hospital.

One man still stands out for me. The first time I met him he was in his hospital bed with his intestines in a bag beside him - they were still cleaning dirt and such out of them. He had been hit by a claymore - a boobytrap his Sgt. had triggered. The Sgt's body had sorta screened him, the Sgt survived (he was right on top of it) - but without his manhood. He felt lucky, he had been in country 8 months when he got hit and hadn't had a scratch up 'til then (btw, infantry units were suffering 60-70% casualties). When he finally got out of the hospital he use to come down and BS. He'ld talk about the ingorance of the officers, about walking in the "big circle" (each unit had a designated patrol area, and Mr. Charles knew them better than we did). Finally, he told me about the day and way his "accident" had occurred - how 3 men had died and he had initially been left for dead (I mean if someone ain't moving and his guts are spread out one tends to discount them as a lost cause). He said, when it happened (the mine went off) the Sgt. was signalling the men - he never saw the wire - the blast was like an enveloping current. He never felt a thing ('til later), and was certain the Sarge was dead - and so was he. He felt nothing. It was so fast, so inconceivable, almost dream like. He said, if he didn't have the scars he might even think it had been (that and three months in bed and rehab).

War's affect on a person is an individual experience - many may react the same, but each persons' perception is always theirs and no one elses. How they contend with it is another matter entirely. PTSD (PostTramaticStressDisorder) - some never get past it, while others block the entire affair out. My cousin is one of the latter (and has a PHD in Psychology), while others blamed their being put in the infantry on "fate", he realized early on that he was there for being an idiot (1.3 gpa in HS - talk about an overacheiver after the experience). Cuz saw the real deal. His first realization that he wasn't in the "real world" anymore was when the truck picked him up at the repo-depo and on the way to his new home the two vets in the truck were firing merrily away. He asked what they were shooting at, and the one turned and explained they were trying to pick a kid off the back of a water buffalo (plowing in a field) - without hitting the buffalo of course. (they missed btw). The idea that men (boys from America) could do such a thing shocked him, but later he understood. When he first came home we had a lengthy discussion on the "meaning of life", his conclusion had been that a humans life has no more value than a flys - once gone they are both replaceable and rarely missed (for very long anyway). Fact is, today, he remembers very little of it. His wife (3rd) made him make a scrap book of his events in 'nam (including getting newspaper clippings of the time on his units activities) - guess it may have been good therapy. He recalls his friend (s), but almost nothing of the action - death or terrors. One thing though, he also thinks PTSD is over-rated ...... . That anyone holding on to their experiences is a wooooosy, or just to lazy to get on with it (life). He's a good guy, but I don't agree with him on this.

My one uncle carried a German round in his leg (whom he would show anyone that asked - and some who didn't) that he received at Anzio. When asked what it was like (he was 18), he would reply he was just running like hell with the rest of the men and the next thing he knew he was flying backwards (he got stitched from shoulder to leg - 5 rounds). He thought it was unusual to be travelling in such a manner, but it didn't register 'til he hit the ground that he had been shot. Asked if he was afraid, he said only 'til they hit the beach - 'cause he couldn't swim. Asked what he would have done if his boat had sunk? "Get to the bottom and run like hell towards shore." Liked him, he was a very funny man - Tennessee moonshine and all.

See, it is different for everyone. What they bring out of it, how they cope with it (was easier for the guys in WWII - when they came home, they came back together on slow troopships. They had the chance to talk it out with other men that had 'been there"), and how they use it to inspire themselves to bigger and better things. For others, they allow it to define them - to swallow them whole - they live with the images until they are them. For Vietnam vets it was different; one friend of mine went from an ambush to sitting at his Mom's kitchen table in 72 hours - not much time to adjust. The military never saw it as a problem, and is still denying PTSD benefits even today.

Took (even) me a few years to get past some of it. Ended up on the road for a year or so to find myself and what I wanted to do. I don't recommend it (especially today - that was 1973 and there were fewer wierdos running around looking to whack someone), but I ran into other lost souls also. Even a former USMC Capt (rifle company) - an attorney working in the borax mines in the SW (he picked me up hitching). He had just returned from an interview with a law firm. He finally had it out of his sytem. Some times to get past it, we seek an easier non-thinking life style. The wise do what ever it takes to get rid of "it". Those that haven't remain in the moments that define them - or that simply shoved them past their breaking point. We all (the sane) have one. It isn't the fear, it's the images of doing something you once thought incapable of doing that mess with you. If you allow them to.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

You do reAlize ThAt moSt WWII vets are either dead or dying, and the ones in good health have jelly for brains, much less know how to use the internet and frequent gaming forums. You better up your criteria to Vietnam if you want battle info.

Normandy is history

Excuse me, my Grandfather is alive and kicking and still very much in command of the grey matter after 93 odd years. He doesn't talk about the war, well he talks about some things. Like Black American service men coming in, setting up camp, and then the whites coming in and trashing it.