I have recently started a Scpii campaign, and couldn't help but wonder a few things.

First things first: I read elsewere in this forum that the Marius Reforms can happen anytime after an Imperial Palace has been built in the Italian Peninsula. Does this include settlements such as patavium or mediolanum? what about Messana? and say I capture carthage and there is one there, does that count? any thoughts on this topic much appreciated

Second things second: The "A Chance for Power" thing that tells you you can attack Rome and the other Romans. If I choose not to attack when it says I can will it ever come again? And will other Roman factions ever turn against the senate before the player? I have never seen this happen, but I've only played as rome twice thus far.

Thanks

Glaucus

It's been long since I've played R:TW, so forgive me if any mistakes are made. Carthage and Messana, I believe, doesn't count, while Patavium and Mediolanium should--or at least I remembered such...

Sorry I couldn't be more decisive. Memory slips.
Once you get the message, it means you can attack them anytime from now on. It doesn't matter if you wait a hundred years--but most likely the Senate would provoke the war themselves (by trying to wipe out your family with suicide orders) long before.

It is rare, but possible, that other Roman factions would start the Civil War.

Don't quote me on this, but I think the following settlements can trigger Marius:

Rome (obviously)
Patavium
Mediolanium
Segesta (though it'll never happen with that one)
Arretium
Arminium
Capua
Tarentum
Croton
Messana
Syracuse
Lilybaeum

(the last three may not, but I have a gut feeling that they can as well)

****************

The "A Chance for Power" message isn't a one-time thing. It just lets you know that whenever you start the Civil War the people will back you up. It's basically the "go ahead" sign, but whether you choose to wait is up to you.

And finally, I imagine that if you wait long enough without doing anything some faction will eventually annoy the Senate enough to start it but it's highly unlikely as most players lose patience.

I don't think Rome can trigger it, because Rome starts out with the Imperial Palace anyway. Also, even if Segesta, Patavium or Melodanium can, they all probably have too little in the way of population.

You may be right about Rome, but I disagree on Patavium's potential. If you occupy the city and leave a governor in, it grows fast enough to be the first huge city. In my most recent Julii campaign, Patavium triggered Marius for me.

Just how do you achieve that? I´ve tried - repeatedly! - with all Roman factions to leave the Senate alone until they start harrassing me, which never, ever, not once has happened so far. I usually have fifty-something provinces (so a civil war would be short), almost all non-Roman factions are vanished and my popularity with the plebs is sky-high, still my Senate rating is somewhere at level three and won´t go lower. The "Chance to Power" message I´ve already got at around thirty provinces, it would be nice if the Civil War started at about the same time.

Probably the slowest growing province on the campaign map.

Thats why I always recruit massive amounts of peasants from like patavium or any other settlements that are growing to fast and disband them all in segesta. Not only will it force segesta to upgrade but it helps with squalor in the larger settlements as well.

well, in my Scpii campaign, I think carthage triggered it, unless another faction built an Imperial Palace the exact same turn or before. And I THINK, probaby wrong, that when I got the game and played as Julii, I ignored the "Chance for Power" thing when it came due to my armies being away (and my wanting to be a senatorial brown noser), so I moved them in, but by then it wouldn't let me attack the other Romans. Again, I think that is what happened, maybe it was a weird bug or something to spice up a medium campaign level.

Are you patched up to date? Because if you're at version 1.0 or 1.1 than any Imperial Palace anywhere will do. But if you're at 1.2 or above, then it's Italy only. It would definitely explain a lot if you weren't patched.

And I'm not sure what to make of it not letting you attack when you already got the message. As long as you keep conquering the game should let you start the war.


Somewhat off topic, but I love it how Garvanko quotes my "don't quote me on this" bit.

Heh. Must have missed that completely, General H.

On Segesta.. Its almost always the first province to be taken when playing Julii, yet in my just concluded campaign, it got an Imperial Palace sometime around 150BC - over 100 years later.

in the later versions you the city must be on the italian peninsula, wasnt it?

In all versions, in fact. Off course, if the imperial palace needs not necessarily be built by you.

I've noticed that in the 1.0 version the Marius event wouldn't happen until I had to build several palaces, but in the 1.5 version with the Extended Greek Mod installed I needed only one. Also in the 1.5 version with XGM, it happened a few years before my first faction leader died, and with 1.0 it would occur after a few faction leaders had passed away.

In short: it seems that the version/ mod you play has some effect on how soon Marius appears.

Of course the mod could have secretly adjusted growth rates. But considering that it was in both the 1.0 and the 1.5 version that Patavium was the first to reach an Imperial level, and that it took about the same amount of turns to reach it, it seems unlikely to me that the Mod made much of a difference.

Maybe it's just something that only happens with my campaigns, or maybe the patch changed something - I don't know.

Indeed. I think that in 1.1 or 1.2 a set date had to pass before the reforms could occur, but 1.3 removed that. I am not sure though, it is so long ago that I played vanilla R:TW.

As far as I know, in 1.2 and earlier the Reforms didn´t happen before 220 BC, no matter how many Imperial Palaces you have. There still has to be at least one on the Italian peninsula and not in Rome by 220 to trigger the Reform, but it doesn´t happen earlier than that. 1.3 removed the 220 BC date, now the Reform takes place as soon as the first IP in Italy is complete.

Personally, I´d wished CA had kept the 220 trigger, for a couple of reasons, but they didn´t, and that´s that.

When I get a chance for power I usually attack the another roman faction or the senate within a few turns.

I see. Thanks.

In most fo the campaigns i play,my Marius reformation comes at 115bc.

Does that happen for?it usually happens after i take Britannia?
does this happen for you?

Thats about 100 years after I usually get my reforms.

We seem to have two unrelated things under discussion here.

Chance for Power

Marius Reforms

Well at least I think they are unrelated.

Chance for power has occurred in my two imperial campaigns at around 30 odd regions and people populatity of 7 or 8.

Ive not had a Marius reform in the time ive had RTW. Completed the campaign before any town got big enough to build a palace. High taxes slows town growth. Not even sure what im missing..usually only build a handful of principles and loads of light infantry/cavalry.

This only happans in RTW with no mods or patches.

1.2 and onwards: i think it happens at a certain date.

thank you all, I now realize that when I re-installed the game, I forgot to re-patch it up. I'm set now.

See a couple of posts above.
1.2: After 220BC and an Imperial Palace built in Italy (excluding Rome)
1.3 on: Imperial Palace built in Italy without a time limit

That was an amateur mistake, Glaucus.

I'm sure he still feels silly about it, seven years later.

The shame was so great that he hasn't shown his face here for over 5 years...

I'm glad you can count. Now you just have to learn to recite the english alphabet and you'll be the perfect assmonkey.

The OP's problem has been solved and his questions answered, so this thread can now be closed.