What spec of machine do I need?

[Beirut]

Owners of AGP systems who bought their pc's 1-2yrs ago are already screwed as it is for mid-range/high-end gaming cards. I'm just stating the obvious truth from cold hard facts, not some whimsical scenario about plunging prices for previous gen parts.

Hmmm, then I guess you agree to disagree about agreeing to disagree.

Since we're on the subject, I agree to disagree that AGP owners are screwed for mid to high-end cards. I think there is many a gamer who would view the available ATI and Nvidia AGP cards as desirable indeed. Like me. You may not, given your budgetary or technological viewpoints, and that is obviously your right, but I'm sure some others would be more than happy to have one of the higher end AGP cards in their rig.

[orangat]

Hmmm, then I guess you agree to disagree about agreeing to disagree.

No. Its very simple really. I said from my first post in this thread that getting a new agp PC is pointless because pci-e components are not more expensive and are sometimes better but you disagreed. link

....Granted, PCI-E is the future, but right now there is enough life left in the AGP architecture to warrant buying an AGP system if money is an issue...

Do you prefer to keep evading the question or answer whether you would recommend at this point a new agp mb with a 7800gs instead of going pci-e?

Since we're on the subject, I agree to disagree that AGP owners are screwed for mid to high-end cards. I think there is many a gamer who would view the available ATI and Nvidia AGP cards as desirable indeed. Like me. You may not, given your budgetary or technological viewpoints, and that is obviously your right, but I'm sure some others would be more than happy to have one of the higher end AGP cards in their rig.

That was NEVER my point. Owners of these AGP systems don't have any choice but to buy lower performing agp cards for the same price that pcie owners pay for.

[Beirut]

Do you prefer to keep evading the question or answer whether you would recommend at this point a new agp mb with a 7800gs instead of going pci-e?

Hmm, could have sworn we've been here before.

If the price is right, yes. It all comes down to a case of cash, a matter of moolah, a question of quotients, a dingling of dollars, and a pinching of pennies.

I understand your vehement insistence in looking forward, and I cannot argue with your core statement that PCI-E is better, faster, less filling, and able to leap tall building in a single bound, but that does not detract from the argument that if an AGP system can be gotten for a good price, then it is a viable option for many people. Most, if not all, of the games out today can be run very well with AGP hardware.

You may call it whimsy if you wish, but computer parts do go down in price as new technology becomes available. That means that if someone is willing to stay a year behind the technological times, as I do, they can have a good gaming rig for a good price. As PCI-E gets bigger and bigger, AGP systems will obviously drop in price more and more.

As far as I know, there isn't a game out there right now that an AGP system cannot handle well.

I'm not saying you're wrong, not at all. I'm just saying I'm at least a little bit right.

[Xiahou]

That was NEVER my point. Owners of these AGP systems don't have any choice but to buy lower performing agp cards for the same price that pcie owners pay for.

AFAIK, there's virtually no difference between current PCI-e cards and the same model in AGP format. My x800XL would perform no better (everything else being equal) if it was sitting in a pci-e slot instead of a agp 8x one. If you're saying AGP shoppers dont have the same high-end choices as PCI-e one's Id agree. But, you seem to be saying that an identical agp card (same price) would perform significantly worse than a PCI-e one.

For the record, I dont understand how hardware discussions can get so heated.

[orangat]

AFAIK, there's virtually no difference between current PCI-e cards and the same model in AGP format. My x800XL would perform no better (everything else being equal) if it was sitting in a pci-e slot instead of a agp 8x one. If you're saying AGP shoppers dont have the same high-end choices as PCI-e one's Id agree. But, you seem to be saying that an identical agp card (same price) would perform significantly worse than a PCI-e one.

For the record, I dont understand how hardware discussions can get so heated.

Heated? Hardly, it was all a lighthearted conversation what with all the Rhino pics. You must get scared easily.

And did you even read the thread? The agp 6800gs and 7900gs are gimped. They cost just as much as the pci-e versions but are using older cores(nv40 for 6800gs), have slower clockspeed and less pipelines.

The agp x800xl costs $300 while the pci-e version is much less at $180(newegg). And getting either version is pointless since its getting scarce and the faster pcie x850xt-pe is available for about the same price. While both agp/pcie versions are basically the same things, the agp card is more expensive.

Beirut, I've laid out all the facts. AGP is not getting cheaper, it is getting scarcer and dearer. For example, even if the price on the agp 7800gs dropped by 40%, it will only have achieved parity with what pcie owners have _today_. And that is not assuming the price of the pci-e 7800gs have not dropped as well.

[Xiahou]

And did you even read the thread? The agp 6800gs and 7900gs are gimped. They cost just as much as the pci-e versions but are using older cores(nv40 for 6800gs), have slower clockspeed and less pipelines.

That's the fault of the Nvidia's card, not the architecture. You cant blame the AGP bus for Nvidia crippling it's cards- buy ATI.

The agp x800xl costs $300 while the pci-e version is much less at $180(newegg). And getting either version is pointless since its getting scarce and the faster pcie x850xt-pe is available for about the same price. While both agp/pcie versions are basically the same things, the agp card is more expensive.

I dont know what cards you're comparing, but they must be a different brand/specs. If you can produce a link Id like to see it. I found an x800xl on newegg for $184

Here's another example:
ATI RADEON X1600 PRO 512MB PCI EXPRESS (Retail) --- $264.87
ATI RADEON X1600 PRO 512MB AGP (Retail) --- $264.87
link

Identical cards, identical prices, identical performance.

[orangat]

That's the fault of the Nvidia's card, not the architecture. You cant blame the AGP bus for Nvidia crippling it's cards- buy ATI.

Don't bring up a strawman argument. This issue is nothing to do with agp/pcie specifications. Regardless, if Nvidia/ATI cripple agp versions, its still not a good buy. My point is that mid-range/high-end agp cards are either non-existant or scarce and expensive.

I dont know what cards you're comparing, but they must be a different brand/specs. If you can produce a link Id like to see it. I found an x800xl on newegg for $184
Here's another example:
ATI RADEON X1600 PRO 512MB PCI EXPRESS (Retail) --- $264.87
ATI RADEON X1600 PRO 512MB AGP (Retail) --- $264.87
link
Identical cards, identical prices, identical performance.

It must've just came in today and its OOS already lol. I'm sure lots of desperate agp owners must've cleared it out.

What is your point about the x1600pro? Its even slower than the x800np/6600gt. There are tons of low end cards for agp/pcie which wasn't my point in my previous posts. The faster pcie x1600xt is available for $150(newegg) but guess what? No agp versions for the x1600xt.

I don't have to provide links for the gimped agp 6800gs/7800gs. You must obviously be out of touch if you didn't already know what is common knowledge. You can look up the specs in newegg.

[Xiahou]

Don't bring up a strawman argument. This issue is nothing to do with agp/pcie specifications. Regardless, if Nvidia/ATI cripple agp versions, its still not a good buy. My point is that mid-range/high-end agp cards are either non-existant or scarce and expensive.

A strawman isnt any argument that runs counter to yours. Please, let's not go down that road.

What is your point about the x1600pro? Its even slower than the x800np/6600gt. There are tons of low end cards for agp/pcie which is not my point.[/QUOTE]So, what is your point?

Owners of these AGP systems don't have any choice but to buy lower performing agp cards for the same price that pcie owners pay for.

You said that- and you were wrong. That is my point.

Talk about attacking arguments that someone didnt make (strawman)- I ceded in my original post the more high-end cards are available for PCI-e users. My only disagreement was with your above quote, which I demonstrated to be innaccurate. You can buy identically priced AGP/PCI-e cards that will give you identical performance. AGP users are not forced to pay the same price for a lower performing card. Guess Im done here.