Is the public THAT stupid?

[hellenes]

Correct me if im wrong but Im getting more and more the impression from each TW installment that the "developers"=*cough*publishers with a wip*cough* think of the target group audience as the lowest common denominator of low IQ and even lower taste...
Excuse me for the pun but this approach reminds me the first European explorers of Africa and Polynesia that assumed that the locals were a bit better than animals and were offering them impractical but flashy objects in exchange of food and other practical and valuable things.
After the presentation of several units and the general flashy approach by SEGA/CA I wonder is the public that stupid? Should the ignorance and the darkness of FALSE imposed by the media images be preserved and nurished? God forbids that the masses actually LEARN something? And please for Christ sake dont bring "teh limitedtimebudget" excuse, the designing making up and general creation of the "egyptians" in RTW drew more resources when they could simply copy paste the Seleucids...

Hellenes

[Duke John]

It's hellenes time again!

I think it has little to do with what CA thinks their target customers are. There are more games aimed at the same group that are more realistic and not a cartoon of reality. The problem is the vision of the Art Director and artists.

[NagatsukaShumi]

It's a games company's over riding responsibility to make money to run, so targetting the market most likely to buy their games is the sensible option.

Besides, MTW was hardly perfect, remember the 56 year bug? That annoyed the hell out of me and certainly killed the immersion people talk about, luckily they fixed it.

Give them a chance to release the thing before you crucify it.

[Gaulgath]

Give them a chance to release the thing before you crucify it.

Agreed.

[hellenes]

It's a games company's over riding responsibility to make money to run, so targetting the market most likely to buy their games is the sensible option.

Besides, MTW was hardly perfect, remember the 56 year bug? That annoyed the hell out of me and certainly killed the immersion people talk about, luckily they fixed it.

Give them a chance to release the thing before you crucify it.

So the public IS STUPID?
Can you tell me ONE thing:
If Rome Total War was released and it had instead of its cartoony units, units from Europa Barbarorum and Im talking now PURE VISUAL, not the native names, not the scripts JUST the LOOK.
Would it NOT sell as good?
And on the crusifiction thing being fan is one thing but being a occultists is something completely different...

Hellenes

[NagatsukaShumi]

So the public IS STUPID?
Can you tell me ONE thing:
If Rome Total War was released and it had instead of its cartoony units, units from Europa Barbarorum and Im talking now PURE VISUAL, not the native names, not the scripts JUST the LOOK.
Would it NOT sell as good?
And on the crusifiction thing being fan is one thing but being a occultists is something completely different...

Hellenes

It may, it may not, we will never know.

Too many people are looking for faults in this game, they aren't giving it the chance it deserves. The units may turn out shocking but you may find the gameplay to be the best in the series and an absolute gem of a game, which gets better when some modellers release accurate unit appearances to use.

As long as they LOOK atleast a bit medieval I am fine with that, I care more about how the game plays then whether its entirely accurate, I can handle knights with incorrect armour if the game is a good play and something we can mould to be more realistic.

[shifty157]

It may, it may not, we will never know.

Too many people are looking for faults in this game, they aren't giving it the chance it deserves. The units may turn out shocking but you may find the gameplay to be the best in the series and an absolute gem of a game, which gets better when some modellers release accurate unit appearances to use.

As long as they LOOK atleast a bit medieval I am fine with that, I care more about how the game plays then whether its entirely accurate, I can handle knights with incorrect armour if the game is a good play and something we can mould to be more realistic.

Hes right. Although realism helps, the reason people have lost so much interest in RTW is not because of the horribly inaccurate units and factions. People are very much stupid. How many people do you think know anything about ancient civilization? When 14% of americans cannot even point out their own country on a world map (an actual statistic and im sure it applies to all countries) how do you expect them to know that a hastati had a slightly more rounded shield than whats in the game? People are very much stupid. But im getting off topic. The reason RTW died off like it did was because of the crappy gameplay. The AI was complete shit. I could play with my eyes closed and beat the AI on the hardest difficulty settings. For this reason alone the game failed miserably. Yes historical accuracy helps but when CA says that their main focus is on gameplay then i expect a game worth playing.

I myself could care less about historical accuracy. Yes i would prefer it. But id rather have a game that i can actual play more than twice.

With that said. At the moment, I do plan to buy MTW2. But there is a very real possibility that MTW2 will be the last TW game i buy if it does not significantly improve. I say this as a loyal fan who bought STW the day it came out however many years ago.

[Dooz]

Anybody here, nomatter how idealistic in theory, would do exactly the same thing as anyone at CA in the same situation. And only arguing about the graphics is playing to the idea that those are the chief concern among consumers. As NagatsukaShumi said, as long as they look medieval, it's fine. Modding graphics is always an option. You can't possibly expect an intricately detailed reproduction of historical authenticity in a vanilla game. No matter what screenshots come out, there are tons of people picking it apart to unrealistic standards, complaining about the tiniest things. Shield is too small, spear is too thin, animation leaves body exposed. As far as the game company goes, there have to be lines drawn as far as how much they can put into all the aspects of such an immense game. Unless the game is represented as being a 100% authentic, historically accurate one by the ones releasing it, it shouldn't be held to those standards.

[Helgi]

So the public IS STUPID?
Can you tell me ONE thing:
If Rome Total War was released and it had instead of its cartoony units, units from Europa Barbarorum and Im talking now PURE VISUAL, not the native names, not the scripts JUST the LOOK.
Would it NOT sell as good?
And on the crusifiction thing being fan is one thing but being a occultists is something completely different...

Hellenes

Is the public that stupid, its a rhetorical question of course, Hellenes; deep down you know the answer as well as do I and anyone else. Yes, the public is that stupid. EB is fantastic, played it, but have played RTR 6.0, 6.1, 6.2, in the end it's not the corps that care for what is correct in a historical game, it's the people who play, mod and research to make it better.

[Wandarah]

stop crying and mod the game if you dont like it when it comes out hellenes.

oh, and i dont think that not being overly concerned with historical accuracy makes someone 'stupid'. also, you are a member of the public.

[hellenes]

It's hellenes time again!

I think it has little to do with what CA thinks their target customers are. There are more games aimed at the same group that are more realistic and not a cartoon of reality. The problem is the vision of the Art Director and artists.

Can you please mention even ONE melee game on the scale of TW tactical battles that resembles even at 10% the reality and has the same target group audience?
Cause the only thing that mass appeal strategy games have are poor Dune2 clo(w)nes like AoE, RoN etc...

Hellenes

[ShadowMagnet]

Self explanatory, this, hellenes, econ21 et al.
It just winds me up a bit when the game gets a brutal kicking for no reason.
I would just prefer it if all of yous gave it a fair go before statements are made, is all.
Maybe I'm just bitter coz my tenner says CA will let me down no end when push comes to shove. And I'll have to fork out forty quid just to know this for sure...
Nought personal peeps, sorry if I was being mean.

[hellenes]

Self explanatory, this, hellenes, econ21 et al.
It just winds me up a bit when the game gets a brutal kicking for no reason.
I would just prefer it if all of yous gave it a fair go before statements are made, is all.
Maybe I'm just bitter coz my tenner says CA will let me down no end when push comes to shove. And I'll have to fork out forty quid just to know this for sure...
Nought personal peeps, sorry if I was being mean.

Its ok mate
You should see me in Greek forums trying to persuade my AoE/WIII maniac compatriots how amazing (compared to the rest) strategy game RTW is...
You just should understand that this all critisism is coming mainly due to the last traces of hope that remains in us MTW nostalgic folk that CA will return to its roots of immersive and deep strategy games that kept us awake till dawn...and also its the last attempt to awake the concience in developers that worked at MTW since once the game is released its too late...
As I said in the other thread: I REALLY hope to be proven wrong and all my fears to be proven baseless.

Hellenes

[Dooz]

Awwwww


.........*runs off*.........

[econ21]

Thanks, Shadowmagnet and Hellenes - it is good to be able to bring this thread to close on an amicable note.