Is the public THAT stupid?

**Dooz** · 03-31-2006, 23:11

Anybody here, nomatter how idealistic in theory, would do exactly the same thing as anyone at CA in the same situation. And only arguing about the graphics is playing to the idea that those are the chief concern among consumers. As NagatsukaShumi said, as long as they look medieval, it's fine. Modding graphics is always an option. You can't possibly expect an intricately detailed reproduction of historical authenticity in a vanilla game. No matter what screenshots come out, there are tons of people picking it apart to unrealistic standards, complaining about the tiniest things. Shield is too small, spear is too thin, animation leaves body exposed. As far as the game company goes, there have to be lines drawn as far as how much they can put into all the aspects of such an immense game. Unless the game is represented as being a 100% authentic, historically accurate one by the ones releasing it, it shouldn't be held to those standards.

**NagatsukaShumi** · 03-31-2006, 23:22

Also, lets not forget NO Total War has been 100% accurate, its a game BASED on history.

Gameplay is the actual thing to worry about, and we can't do that UNTIL we PLAY the game.

All these anti-MTWII threads are pointless.

**Dooz** · 03-31-2006, 23:27

Originally Posted by NagatsukaShumi

Also, lets not forget NO Total War has been 100% accurate, its a game BASED on history.

Gameplay is the actual thing to worry about, and we can't do that UNTIL we PLAY the game.

All these anti-MTWII threads are pointless.

For sure. Unfortunately, it's an undeniable human instinct to criticize and it's terribly easy to do so from afar. Nothing is perfect and it's not hard to point out things that make it so.

**Woad Warrior** · 03-31-2006, 23:32

I think some people here are being a bit harsh on RTW. OK, the AI left a lot to be desired, and it could have been a lot more historically accurate, but if you all hate the TW series so much, why are you here anyway? It was the brilliant gameplay of the TW series that led to these thriving TW communities. They created a game engine with huge potential, that modders such as those at EB and RTR and god knows how many mods have taken advantage of, giving us one of the most enjoyable PC games of all time.

And don't judge a game just because of a few clips of units. MTW had stunning graphics, and it should have a brilliant gameplay system like RTW. Even if it is a bit of a fantasy game to begin with, modders can build upon that, to give us fantastic gameplaying time like with EB. The mods are what make these forums what they are in the first place.

I just think people should give M2TW a chance. If it wasn't for CA, we wouldn't all be here in the first place, thinking up mods and talking about all our gameplay experiences.

**hellenes** · 03-31-2006, 23:44

1st Historical Accuracy =/= Gameplay
EB has proved it.
2nd I asked a question and still await an answer:
"If Rome Total War was released and it had instead of its cartoony units, units from Europa Barbarorum and Im talking now PURE VISUAL, not the native names, not the scripts JUST the LOOK.
Would it NOT sell as good?"
3rd I dont care if they make the game accurate or not, Im not bashing their game and Im well aware that they have the monopoly of strategic tactical games amongst the idiotic darkness of basebuilding/resourcecollecting clickfest toys...Im just wondering if the mass media including the gaming industry really thinks of the target groupd customer as ignorant morons...

Hellenes

**NagatsukaShumi** · 03-31-2006, 23:59

Originally Posted by hellenes

1st Historical Accuracy =/= Gameplay
EB has proved it.
2nd I asked a question and still await an answer:
"If Rome Total War was released and it had instead of its cartoony units, units from Europa Barbarorum and Im talking now PURE VISUAL, not the native names, not the scripts JUST the LOOK.
Would it NOT sell as good?"
3rd I dont care if they make the game accurate or not, Im not bashing their game and Im well aware that they have the monopoly of strategic tactical games amongst the idiotic darkness of basebuilding/resourcecollecting clickfest toys...Im just wondering if the mass media including the gaming industry really thinks of the target groupd customer as ignorant morons...

Hellenes

What they know is that people buy these games, if they didn't, they'd change their ways.

It might, however, you've got to understand that this is a game based on history, they make units that look "cool" to the majority.

**acesman** · 04-01-2006, 00:25

My concern is not so much with historical accuracy (we are, after all, making our own history), as it might not be as much fun for some factions.

I have been playing since S:TW, and have played M:TW VI and the XL mod extensively. The problem that I have with R:TW that has prevented me from buying it, and makes me anxious about M:TW2 is the fact that several persistent bugs are still in R:TW that CA has said they will not address!
This strikes me as a strange stance, as I am somewhat used to companies addressing problems with their product sooner or later, since it has an impact on future sales. I have admired companies that have not "rushed out" a product that was not finished, and have doggedly chased down bugs that do exist. Weak AI is somewhat forgivable, bugs are not.

**anti_strunt** · 04-01-2006, 00:53

While complaining about the gameplay of MTW2 is pretty moot, since none of us have played it, I still find it perfectly reasonable to argue (or, as in my case, whine uncontrolably) about its visual aspects, since the eye candy will obviously be a very major selling point, and since we've got quite a few screenshots and previews to talk about...

**Furious Mental** · 04-01-2006, 07:00

"Im just wondering if the mass media including the gaming industry really thinks of the target groupd customer as ignorant morons..."

People aren't morons just because they are not afficianados of a particular area of history. A fairer question would be "does the games industry think the target consumer is not an expert on medieval warfare"- and obviously it doesn't for the very good reason that most people aren't.

**Voigtkampf** · 04-01-2006, 07:05

Originally Posted by Woad Warrior

I think some people here are being a bit harsh on RTW. OK, the AI left a lot to be desired, and it could have been a lot more historically accurate, but if you all hate the TW series so much, why are you here anyway?

Because we want more of Shogun and Medieval.

...MTW had stunning graphics, and it should have a brilliant gameplay system like RTW.

You surely mean the other way around.

Originally Posted by hellenes

So the public IS STUPID?

Not all of it, but the majority. And numbers speak for themselves.

Originally Posted by NagatsukaShumi

Also, lets not forget NO Total War has been 100% accurate, its a game BASED on history.

Gameplay is the actual thing to worry about, and we can't do that UNTIL we PLAY the game.

All these anti-MTWII threads are pointless.

Indeed. Although pointless complaining threads (little will be changed according to our protests, I fear, and we will only drive CA deeper into their trenches) help us venting. Why? Because of Great Expectations.

But then again, I don’t care about anything else, give me a decent fundament to mod the game and I’m happy.

**Woad Warrior** · 04-01-2006, 11:14

Yes in my post I meant M2TW has stunning graphics.

**screwtype** · 04-01-2006, 14:06

Originally Posted by Wonderland

And only arguing about the graphics is playing to the idea that those are the chief concern among consumers.

Yes, but since we're getting little else but screenshots to talk about, what else can we discuss but the graphics? Be realistic, please.

**Mikeus Caesar** · 04-01-2006, 15:42

Originally Posted by hellenes

Is the public THAT stupid?

I can answer this in two ways - the short way, and the big long explanation way. I'm going to answer the short way.

Short way - yes. The general public are all morons who generally think the Romans built the pyramids and that anyone who wasn't Roman was a vile barbarian who commited incest with his Mother.

So therefore, they will only buy something they recognise. After all, they want to be buying a game that looks just like all the movies they've seen of Medieval times, not a historic representation.

If it's historic, then it would just look too boring. And *gasp!* they would actually learn something, that just won't do.

No, instead, the public wants all soldiers to be like fighters out of Mortal Kombat, doing combo moves and with the ability to fly through the air.

And ninja's. The public want ninja's, so don't forget the ninja's CA!

Flying ninja's obviously. With elephants mounted on their backs. And these elephants have trebuchets mounted on their backs. Flying-ninja-elephant-trebuchets. With eye lasers if you buy the upgrade in the Turn of our Lord, 213.

Looking back, that wasn't really a short explanation...