Is the public THAT stupid?

[Puzz3D]

That statement by Captain Fishpants just goes to show that the offer from the EB team didn't get very far within CA.

[screwtype]

I read somewhere that there are legal reasons why they can't just incorporate stuff from modders, even with the modders' permission.

[Kraxis]

I read somewhere that there are legal reasons why they can't just incorporate stuff from modders, even with the modders' permission.

Yup... I presume that the situation is similar to authors and fans giving ideas for books. If you want your favourite author to write a book on something you have made up, the worst thing you can do it send the material to him. Then it will never happen.

But CA has used EB supplied info. I know that the text for the Night Raiders is more or less the same as one of the members wrote here (for a dev discussion), after which a dev said he would look into it, and apparently did pretty well.
So they are clearly selecting it.

Btw, what Captain Fishpants is, that not only has he, personally, not seen it, but that we are talking about specific info. Not a general announcement that they could receive free help.
If the EB people did send such an offer of help, then it is no suprirse that one of them would have to say "no, we didn't send you any specific info."

[SigniferOne]

Just for the record, EB is not THE history, it is a version of history recreated from a particular perspective, which is what Khelvan himself said on a number of occasions. If CA adopted EB as THE historical source, then they would receive a lot of complaints on historical grounds, from many people, me foremost among them. As it is now, CA created a neutral platform, EB can create their thing there, other people can create theirs, and there's no protest.

I really couldn't care less if a border of a tunic on a soldier is wrong, and I'm not going froth at the mouth with fury at CA for being so horribly evil as to commit such an inexcusable historical mistake. People who do that... need to get out more. As long as I'm allowed to change things, all I want from CA is a beautiful immersive engine, and an exciting and challenging gameplay.

[hellenes]

Just for the record, EB is not THE history, it is a version of history recreated from a particular perspective, which is what Khelvan himself said on a number of occasions. If CA adopted EB as THE historical source, then they would receive a lot of complaints on historical grounds, from many people, me foremost among them. As it is now, CA created a neutral platform, EB can create their thing there, other people can create theirs, and there's no protest.

I really couldn't care less if a border of a tunic on a soldier is wrong, and I'm not going froth at the mouth with fury at CA for being so horribly evil as to commit such an inexcusable historical mistake. People who do that... need to get out more. As long as I'm allowed to change things, all I want from CA is a beautiful immersive engine, and an exciting and challenging gameplay.

Present those "complaints" with something called arguments and if they are strong enough I cant see any reason for them not changing it.
And please can you show some respect and stop telling other people what to do...
A fan is something completel different from a fanboy...

[NagatsukaShumi]

That statement by Captain Fishpants just goes to show that the offer from the EB team didn't get very far within CA.

Did you also not see that EB stated themselves that they never made a direct offer to CA as well then? Blinkers on?

EB simply provided information publically that COULD be used, it wasn't a direct offer to anybody at CA.

[anti_strunt]

(From the thread in question, just below Captain Fishpant's post...)

No one officially offered the information in a package to the CA offices - but simply having it posted here and having the game not include any of the material is rejection enough. Not direct rejection - true. IIRC the massive thread was stickied here in the Colloseum for months.

Seems quite clear to me...

[Puzz3D]

Did you also not see that EB stated themselves that they never made a direct offer to CA as well then? Blinkers on?

EB simply provided information publically that COULD be used, it wasn't a direct offer to anybody at CA.

Then CA wasn't even aware of the publically provided information? Of course they were aware of it, but decided not to use it. Once in a while CA will incorporate a suggestion into the game, but most of the time they don't. I don't think you have any idea of the number of suggestions CA has rejected over the last 5 years. And, if you think Palmedes is going to have any great impact, you're dreaming.

I want to be able to properly evaluate MTW2 before I purchase it. It clear from the way RTW was marketed that you cannot do that by looking at magazine reviews, official interviews, official statements, official screenshots, official videos and the non-optimized, scripted demo.

[NagatsukaShumi]

Then CA wasn't even aware of the publically provided information? Of course they were aware of it, but decided not to use it. Once in a while CA will incorporate a suggestion into the game, but most of the time they don't. I don't think you have any idea of the number of suggestions CA has rejected over the last 5 years. And, if you think Palmedes is going to have any great impact, you're dreaming.

I want to be able to properly evaluate MTW2 before I purchase it. It clear from the way RTW was marketed that you cannot do that by looking at magazine reviews, official interviews, official statements, official screenshots, official videos and the non-optimized, scripted demo.

I'll say no more on the matter, because its clear people have chosen their camps and won't be moved.

[HarunTaiwan]

Since many people get their history from movies, games, etc., you'd think the creative types would do their best to be accurate.

The ony reason I could see for them to ignore accuracy would be to save money by not using researchers or for game play reasons.

Then again, they know the game is moddable, so they do give the option of more realism...what I suggest is they work with EB next time to offer their mod as a downloadable program for a small fee. (Notice their Greek mod is being done like this.)

You know what's funny is if they made a Lord of the Rings Total War they would probably have to be MORE careful than with actual history as the fanboys would tear them apart if they messed up.

[econ21]

I suspect historical accuracy is of minimal importance when it comes to TW sales. Most of us strategy gamers are very uniformed about ancient and medieval combat. We would not have known if a EB triarii is more historical than a RTR or a RTW one. Probably because we've never even heard of a triarii. We probably think Romans in chainmail (or even worse, those dinky little square armour things over the hastati's hearts) look daft, whereas lorca segmenta looks historical and cool. Egyptians are expected to look like those of the Pharoahs etc. One reason I love TW games - ironically, especially the derided RTW - is because they are great history lessons. Just seeing a map with the factions laid out is very informative, even if some of the factions and starting positions are a little out. Finding out who exactly the Seleucids were, how close in time Alexander was to the rise of Rome etc has been a revelation for me. But I doubt many other people buy them for that reason.

Where I do agree with Hellenes is that a RTW with EB style units would have sold as well. But I think that's because many of EBs units are just gorgeous looking. If they were all pale and muddy, then however realistic, I doubt they would sell much. For example, EBs Polybian hastati, rorarii, levees etc would not attract many mass market gamers, although the EB triarii and equites would as they are stunning. Think about a Napoelonic TW: units in full dress would look splendid. Depicting them as they would look in a campaign, dirty, often shoeless, with ragged uniforms etc would be disasterous for sales. But by this criteria (graphics), RTW was head and shoulders over MTW. And M2TW seems to have caught up with EB and RTR in terms of nice looking units, even if they are less realistic.

[Puzz3D]

I'd rather have stick figures that work properly.

[Dooz]

Where I do agree with Hellenes is that a RTW with EB style units would have sold as well. But I think that's because many of EBs units are just gorgeous looking. If they were all pale and muddy, then however realistic, I doubt they would sell much. For example, EBs Polybian hastati, rorarii, levees etc would not attract many mass market gamers, although the EB triarii and equites would as they are stunning. Think about a Napoelonic TW: units in full dress would look splendid. Depicting them as they would look in a campaign, dirty, often shoeless, with ragged uniforms etc would be disasterous for sales. But by this criteria (graphics), RTW was head and shoulders over MTW. And M2TW seems to have caught up with EB and RTR in terms of nice looking units, even if they are less realistic.

I gotta' tell ya'... In all honesty, I'd be extatic if they made shoeless, muddy, raggedy-ass soldiers and I think a lot of others probably would too. They've already made strides in that direction with M2TW with mud and I think even blood somewhat accumulating on troops over the course of the battle.