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Thread: Bug or game limits?

  1. #1
    Member Member Kage's Avatar
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    This question is in reference to a campaign game I was playing (yes, I still play the campaign game while waiting for cable modem).
    Is anyone aware of a limit on the amount of koku or number of troops on the strategic map in a campaign game?
    The situation is this:
    Its 1568 I'm playing as Mori and control the left with infrastructure maxed and about 50,000 koku in the bank.
    Hojo is on the right with the usual hordes of troops but he is no longer adding troops.
    Oda is in the center in a nice little sandwich with his own hordes holding back the Hojo but is not adding any troops.
    I get the pop up window every season saying that I don't have enough koku to build or train while it allows me to build buildings but not troops.
    So, is it a bug or a limit on the number of units allowable in the game at one time?

    Just curious, any info welcome.

    Have a nice day.

  2. #2
    Member Member Anssi Hakkinen's Avatar
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    Well, this may be one reason: It's possible the game stores the amount of units as a 16 (?) bit integer. This would prevent it from being any larger than about 32k... The bug is present in many other games: "It's a programming thing." Congratulations for having perhaps the biggest horde game in all history.

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    - Tsukuhara Bokuden
    "It is a good viewpoint to see the world as a dream. When you have something like a nightmare, you will wake up and tell yourself that it was only a dream. It is said that the world we live in is not a bit different from this".
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  3. #3
    Member Member EuroSan's Avatar
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    The thing is....you have buildings and units on que to build , it builds in one province and the koku finish, so the next province that should have started a building or training say┤s you dont have enough koku for it............no bug or limit...just ran out of cash :-D

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    May the honour be with you all..........EuroSan the reborned spirit of LinkSan
    May the honour be with you all..........EuroSan the reborned spirit of LinkSan

  4. #4
    Insomniac and tired of it Senior Member Slyspy's Avatar
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    Eurosan, just reborn will do. You can't be reborned.

    Sorry, a sudden pedantic episode there. I'm fine now.

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    [This message has been edited by Slyspy (edited 02-25-2001).]
    "Put 'em in blue coats, put 'em in red coats, the bastards will run all the same!"

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  5. #5
    Member Member Anssi Hakkinen's Avatar
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    Considering "born" is an irregular verb that appears identical in all its three tenses:

    is born

    was born

    has been born

    I think 'San's mistake is pretty understandable (he's no native speaker, but then, neither am I).

    "Your language does not conform to established standards: correct it immediately!"

    ------------------
    "The warrior who does not know his business is like a cat that does not know the way of ratting."
    - Tsukuhara Bokuden
    "It is a good viewpoint to see the world as a dream. When you have something like a nightmare, you will wake up and tell yourself that it was only a dream. It is said that the world we live in is not a bit different from this".
    - Yamamoto Tsunetomo: Hagakure

  6. #6
    Member Member Heims30's Avatar
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    Yep, English, the most anally redundant, pain in the ass, nonsense language I've ever learned. Okay, the only language I can really speak, but the point remains.

    But on to the topic! Why don't you just wage war and find out? Somebody'll lose some troops, then you'll find out if there's a limit or something.

  7. #7
    Member Member Kage's Avatar
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    Well, cash is not the problem because I have over 50,000 koku so I think it has to be a limit (programming or other).
    My original objective in this campaign was to put my own Mori hordes up against the Hojo hordes. I wanted practice extended battle tactics with no battle timer and multiple reinforcement phases(not the usual, beat the first 16 units and then rout all the reinforcements as they come on the board). Just as I finished with all the economic builds to support my hordes, I find out Hojo has almost every able bodied man in Japan signed up for his Shogun march to victory parade.
    I have never run into this limitation on the number of units (troops as well as strategic units)before because I usually play a more aggressive campaign style.
    It may be something to keep in mind if you are playing in an online campaign, especially if it seems to stalemate for a long period of time(there are limits and he who has the most troops when those limits are reached will have a significant advantage).
    Oh well, maybe this will be addressed when they fix the Hojo horde problem (if they ever do fix the Hojo horde problem).

    Have a nice day.

    [This message has been edited by Kage (edited 02-26-2001).]

  8. #8

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    Kage,

    How many troops do you have? You do have to maintain those troops at 1 koku/man. If you're bringing in more koku than you're spending, then the total in the bank should be increasing. The maintenance cost would be subtracted before any build requests were processed, and then what EuroSan says could easily happen. Note: A 16 bit integer could go to 65535 if it were unsigned, but then I suppose a common programming error is also using signed numbers when you don't need to.

    As far as the AI stopping training, here's how CA/DT answered my questions in Erado's Question Time:


    Question 044 - Subject : Strategy Details

    In a recent Shogun campaign game on normal difficulty, the one remaining AI clan (Uesugi) stopped building and training at one point in the game. Although the game continued another 22 years, he never built or trained troops again. His income was fixed at a relatively low 1340/year @ 100% tax rate, and he had 7000 troops total in his two provinces. He had room for more buildings. I continued to build up strength on his borders. Why did Uesugi stop building and training?

    Answer:

    If you can hold your borders with an existing number of troops, there's no point in building more which will only cost money to maintain. If you have enough troop building capacity you can be better off saving money to build troops when needed than spending it. There's a large number of factors he could have been taking into account.



    Question 045 - Subject : Strategy Details

    If there is a negative koku limit beyond which the AI cannot build, what is it for each difficulty level and each clan?

    Answer:

    Mmm, that would be telling.


    One other thing: I tried fighting large battles with waves of reinforcements, and the battle would always hang on the third wave. In one case there was no fighting going on, none of my units were moving, and the camera was still. The only thing happening was AI reinforcements coming onto the map. In this case, the program may be running into a graphical limit on textures.

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