The problem with Islam

[Redleg]

OK, first, KAFIR is an Arabic insult flung at those whom have not been enlightened by Muhamad (sp) and found Allah to be the one true god. It means infidel - or Christian, Jew, Buddhist, etc. So, I'm not exactly sure what the point here was Red - unless it was to somehow signify my conformance to Islam? Or, was it to demonstrate a (my) non-existent disdain for a culture that most westerners refuse to understand - try to remember I spent 6 years in the late 70's and early 80's studying and writing papers on Middle-East affairs. Regardless, I chose the name Kafir not to be offensive (as some names connote), but ....... well, why not? Redleg, I suppose is just a bird? Or is it reference to the "Redlegs" of Civil War attrocities - I mean the Cincinnati Reds shortened their name to be pollitically correct correct back in the 60's. Regardless, what is in a name?

Not even close to what I meant with the comment, but nice try, if one is only looking at the insult aspects of the term Kafir. To be completely forthcoming there is another insulting meaning for the term Kafir that stems from South Africa also.

The writings on Islam as presented by yourself in this thread would fit the orginial meaning of Kifar as it relates to Islam..

KafirKafir (Arabic: كافر kāfir; plural كفّار kuffār) is an Arabic word meaning a person who hides, denies, or covers the truth.

A very fitting describtion of some of your posts in this thread.

You keep referring to your family, and my calling them Nazis ... when in fact I queried if they were racists - after you commented that one of your ancestors was a founder of the KKK, or a leader in it or some such. It really is getting old though that every time I am accused of being an extremist, or knucklehead, wrong-think, or that my arguements are not worthy of discussion.

your memory must be failing - I never stated that my family had an ancestor that was a founder of the KKK - you seem to have confused yourself about what I have written. My father however is a bigot, a racist if you will - whom I have been educating that racial make-up of the individual is not important, but the individual's behavior. Being the son of a racist however does not make one a nazi, nor does it makes one's ancestors a bunch of facists.

If you don't like certain accusation and comments in return then maybe you should first lay off of the extremist comparssions that you often attempt.

On this subject, "the problem with islam", I opened discussion to why islam is the way it is. And, on why so many good people of islamic faith have gone to the darker side of it - I don't believe I have accused the religion of being subversive (as have some) or proclaimed that Jesus is the one true god (or is that Jehova, the name that cannot be spoken, etc?).

And your post was responded to by people far more educated then I in Islam and they have shown where your premise is incorrect, therefor I had no reason to disprove your premise since it has been done by others.

Most that have actually had something to say on topic have given me a variation of approaches, perceptions, histories, and analogies that have been somewhat enlightening. Though I do not find all of them as well thoughtout as others, all have been atleast honest. Versus personal attacks against me, or a religion some refuse to even perceive as not being one of terrorism. As one put it, Islam has been hi-jacked just as other religions have to support political beliefs - and/or perceived threats (as another mentioned - a very good one actually, hadn't given much thought to that premise).

You should write like this more often - its more apporiate for the discussion that you initially seem to want to have.

Railing against me, calling me an extremist, accusing me of insulting ancestors .... well, what ever rings your bell. Versus actually commenting on topic, or hurling insults, or insinuations that I won't be satisfied 'til we (US)collapse to the level of poverty the majority of Muslims live in. Thing is, seems (to me) there are just as many religious extremists in the Christian community as there are in the Islamic one. It is simply a matter of perception.

Actually you have done all that I stated - but don't let that prevent you from attempting to escape responsiblity. Nor have I stated that you want to see the United States fail, not in a direct way. If you don't like the language and responses you get, don't use the method initially. Shall we review the initial rounds of this conversation.

The first being that I informed Panzer that he would be better served to ignore you, not even an accusation of wrong or insulting you at all.

Lets see the quote exactly.

hope you do realize the KafirChobee writes such material (and cuts and pastes from certain sites) the type of subject matter that he does to provoke such a response from those with political idealoge opinions opposite from his own.

If you would allow his rants to go unanswered or better yet show where his points are mote, ridiculous or so far off base as several others have done in this particlure thread - you points would be better served.

Nowhere was there an attack on you by myself in this comment. Telling Panzer that his points would be better served if he ignored your rants - is not insulting you at all. However you decided to take issue with the statement with the little "seige heil" comment which was completely uncalled for. It was actually an attempt to prevent the direction that you chose to go with in your response to me. To bad that in your desire to have another confrontation with me - you missed the actual message in my post.

Futhermore, you didn't like my retort in response I see, well you might want to notice something from our previous exchanges, that and review your own. You will notice something if you pay attention, I normally respond in the matter in which I am being treated in the post.

If you want honest intellectual discussion then treat the discussion as an honest discussion. Nazi comparassion and the like are not honest attempts, nor will they be responded to in a polite manner.